[GGG]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Automation is not always good, and it isn't what allowed us to go from hunter gatherer to now. You make points in your own post about the downsides to automation so how can you make the claim that it isnalways good?

This is at best a manipulated rewriting of history. When workers fought for a reduced work week they weren't saying that automation had made it possible, they were saying that they were no longer interested in working themselves to death so their employer could reap all the benefits.

There are examples where more jobs were created than lost,and examples of more jobs being lost than created, the point I'm making is that the latter is becoming more and more prevalent.

So you are suggesting that being a Luddite is very reasonable? What else did you think is the major concern for them? My position isn't about being against every automation, my position is that the overall benefits from automation will not always outweigh the overall negatives.

If overall, employers profit from automation but have no options for reinvesting those profits to create new different jobs for the people who lose their jobs from automation I do not see how this is a good thing for everyone or anyone in the long run for that matter. When jobs are eliminated by an employer and workers have no other options to earn a living, those employers and other businesses begin to lose consumers, which lowers their profits, if they automate more to make up for the shortfall, it becomes a downward spiral for both themselves and their (former) employees. The employer can lower prices to keep competitive in attracting consumers but wasn't the whole point of automating to grow their business? Automation that outpaces job creation by too great of a margin essentially manufactures economic recession, when the profit bubble bursts because their aren't enough consumers remaining to keep profits increasing and stimulate growth you end up with workers earning less and employers with smaller profits, and an higher unemployment rate. It is important to remember we are limited by technology, we cannot blindly expect to be able to always create new jobs at the same rate that we eliminate them.

1) if coal mining became not profitable because of the employees demands their demands wouldn't have been met. It's only because their was profit to be fought over that workers had an opportunity to fight.

2) like the above coal miners automation produces additional profit to be fought over. This can be taxed, or paid out in additional wages to remaining employees or taken as profit by the corporation. This fight over the benefit is different from the Luddite burning spinning wheels.

We have never been able to create new jobs at the rate we eliminate them. Unless you can provide an example. Look at how many jobs have been eliminated by robotics or computers.