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Old 08-01-2017, 01:42 PM   #358
CaptainCrunch
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I love Myers, but god no please stop. We saw what happens when you take an iconic character like Khan played by a actor that really made it his own in RM and try to reboot the character. I mean BC is an excellent actor, but he was a horrible Khan, he didn't get the character at all and because of that he was more flat and annoying then anything else.

I loved Khan when he first appeared in Space Seed, I wouldn't have called him evil, he was a product of his upbringing as a genetically engineered superman bought forth to save a world that was in Chaos. He was taught that ruthlessness and a singular goal was the path to leading and saving mankind.

Quote:
Khan Noonien Singh: You are an excellent tactician, Captain. You let your second-in-command attack while you sit and watch for weakness.
Captain James T. Kirk: You have a tendency to express ideas in military terms, Mr. Khan.
[pauses]
Captain James T. Kirk: This is a social occasion.
Khan Noonien Singh: [laughs] It has been said that, uh, "social occasions" are only warfare concealed. Many prefer it more honest, more... open.
Captain James T. Kirk: You fled. Why? Were you afraid?
Khan Noonien Singh: I've never been afraid.
Captain James T. Kirk: But you left at the very time mankind needed courage.
Khan Noonien Singh: [angrily] We offered the world *order*!
Captain James T. Kirk: We?
Khan Noonien Singh: [smiles admiringly, realizing he has revealed more than he would wish] Excellent. Excellent.
He was charming and charismatic, he was everything that you looked for in a leader sans humanity.

I loved this exchange when the crew found out who he was, because at that instant, he became a really complex 3 dimensional character. The failure in the new Khan was he was 2 dimensional and basically just a villain

Quote:
Captain James T. Kirk: [looking at a library picture of Khan on viewscreen] Name: Khan Noonien Singh.
Mr. Spock: From 1992 through 1996, absolute ruler of more than a quarter of your world, from Asia through the Middle East.
Dr. McCoy: The last of the tyrants to be overthrown.
Scott: I must confess, gentlemen. I've always held a sneaking admiration for this one.
Captain James T. Kirk: He was the best of the tyrants and the most dangerous. They were supermen in a sense. Stronger, braver, certainly more ambitious, more daring.
Mr. Spock: Gentlemen, this romanticism about a ruthless dictator is...
Captain James T. Kirk: Mr. Spock, we humans have a streak of barbarism in us. Appalling, but there, nevertheless.
Scott: There were no massacres under his rule.
Mr. Spock: And as little freedom.
Dr. McCoy: No wars until he was attacked.
Mr. Spock: Gentlemen...
[Everyone but Spock laugh]
Captain James T. Kirk: Mr. Spock, you misunderstand us. We can be against him and admire him all at the same time.
Mr. Spock: Illogical.
Captain James T. Kirk: Totally.

Of course when they parted, I didn't really read it as mortal enemies that comes later. Instead they unknowingly planted the seed (tadaa) for one of the greatest character changes that I've ever seen

Quote:
[Khan is escorted out by Security]
Scott: It's a shame for a good Scotsman to admit it, but I'm not up on Milton
Captain James T. Kirk: The statement Lucifer made when he fell into the pit: "It is better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven."
Mr. Spock: It would be interesting, Captain, to return to that world in 100 years and learn what crop had sprung from the seed you planted today.
Captain James T. Kirk: Yes, Mr. Spock. It would indeed.
See Kirk planted the seeds that grew the monster that was the future Khan. He was while still charismatic and undoubtedly a good leader who got his people through hell. He was also a Genetic superman who was driven mad by his need for revenge. He became singular, and that's what made him so great.

At the same time you could almost class Kirk as the villain in TWOK. He never even thought of the people that he had exiled, never checked up on them, Kirk just plain didn't care. You even got that more deeply with the relationship with his son when he bitterly told Dr Marcus "I stayed away like you asked me". Kirk for all of his greatness was all too willing to abandon things and walk away.

Brilliantly though Kirk was the White Whale to Khan's Captain Ahab. And while I have previously said that Khan was a leader sans humanity. He was willing to sacrifice his leadership and use his people to kill the white whale that tormented him. Because of that Khan became a prisoner of his rage, and RM played it so incredibly well.

Quote:
Joachim: We're all with you, sir. But, consider this. We are free. We have a ship, and the means to go where we will. We have escaped permanent exile on Ceti Alpha V. You have defeated the plans of Admiral Kirk. You do not need to defeat him again.
Khan: [paraphrase from Melville's Moby Dick] He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him! I'll chase him 'round the moons of Nibia and 'round the Antares Maelstrom and 'round perdition's flames before I give him up!
Khan was just complex in the OS and TWOK. But he was two different characters

But in both there was a justification to his actions that made him somewhat sympathetic

Quote:
Khan: Captain, Captain, Captain... save your strength. These people have sworn to live and die at my command two hundred years before you were born. Do you mean he never told you the tale? To amuse your Captain, no? Never told you how the Enterprise picked up the Botany Bay, lost in space from the year 1996 with myself and the ship's company in cryogenic freeze?
Capt. Terrell: I never even met Admiral Kirk.
Khan: 'Admiral?' 'Admiral!' 'Admiral'... Never told you how 'Admiral' Kirk sent seventy of us into exile in this barren sandheap with only the contents of these cargo bays to sustain us?
Chekov: You lie! On Ceti Alpha Five there was life! A fair chance...
Khan: [shouts] THIS IS CETI ALPHA FIVE! Ceti Alpha Six exploded six months after we were left here. The shock shifted the orbit of this planet and everything was laid waste. 'Admiral' Kirk never bothered to check on our progress. It was only the fact of my genetically-engineered intellect that allowed us to survive. On Earth, two hundred years ago, I was a prince with power over millions...
Chekov: Captain Kirk was your host. You repaid his hospitality by trying to steal his ship and murder him!
In the end, Khan considered himself to be they victim of Kirk both times. First because Khan had been bested and exiled by inferiors. And then when Kirk failed in his duties and it cost Khan everything.

Even in the end, RM made Khan this sympathetic monster, you could understand him because everyone at one point in their lives has been consumed even if only for a few minutes by anger, jealousy or a need for revenge.

Quote:
Khan: [quoting from Melville's Moby Dick] To the last, I will grapple with thee... from Hell's heart, I stab at thee! For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee!
Instead of this complex and incredibly charismatic character, in Nu-Trek we got BC playing him as a monotone with a plan so predictable that everyone in the audience was like "Quelle Surprise" when the turn happened. I'm never going to say that BC isn't a great actor. But the writing failed him badly, and I don't think he understood the character at all.

With this series, the question is, can they find a writer that can do Khan? Myers would be the guy since he directed TWOK, but can he find the impassioned deep actor that can pull it off without having people saying he sucks compared to Montalban.
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