Tickets - This really ticks me off!!

[JBR]

I should consider myself lucky to have tickets to 14 games this year. I wasn't lucky enough to get seats to the home opener and am not upset at those who did get them.

BUT!!

Here's what irks me. There seem to be hundreds of tickets available through eBay, newpaper classified etc. for OUTRAGEOUS PRICES. eBay says they restrict the bidding to face value and will also remove listings such as "1 hockey card for $300.00 included 2 free home opener tickets."

I call a number in the Herald that advertises tickets for $122 (2 @ $61 each) and he says the Greens ($36/each) go for $225/pair. He also said they have many sets in the Blue and Sport Check Zone.

I'll be satisfied with watching it on Sportsnet West, but can't stand the thought of these people (who are obviously more interested in money than hockey) holding all these tickets while we (I'm sure there are many CP'ers who would do a backflip for opener tickets) are outside looking in.

Does anybody know if the Flames do anything about this type of thing, or if they can? I have contacted e-Bay and reported many violations. Several have been removed.

Not doing this for my benefit. I've made plans to watch at home with friends, but would like to help out fellow CP'ers get to the Dome this year...

[ken0042]

Here's more fuel for the fire. Because I work downtown I get to the games early (5:00) and park myself in front of a TV at Dutton's.

2 games ago I passed a scalper, he did the "selling or buying" question, and I said I was good. We got to talking (morbid curiousity on my part) and he has a block of seats; something like 20 all together.

Can we co-ordinate with the Flames to bust this guy, and have him surrender his tickets and thereby open more seats up?

Myself, I have all my tickets that I want/need/can afford. But what about the rest of us? It wasn't that long ago that I was looking to just buy my pair of tix to the odd game.

[Draug]

I'll add some fuel to this fire, but from the other side.

I dont see anything morally wrong with scalping tickets. Ive bought from scalpers in the past. Isnt it just a simple case of supply and demand? There is way more demand for a Flames ticket than there is supply. It seems reasonable that the price goes up.

Suppose the cost of gasoline rose to $10/L at gas stations across North America. Is it immoral for a person to sell a VW Golf TDI for $60,000? A Golf TDI can be purchased today for $22,000 - $30,000. With gas prices so very high, the demand for a Golf TDI would greatly exceed the supply. I wouldnt be suprised to see used VW Golfs sell for $60,000.

Because the Golf TDI, or even Flames tickets, are not a necessity for survival, I dont see a moral problem with people charging as much as they can when selling these items. However, I do have a moral problem with people price gouging on items that are basic necessities. For example, I wouldnt think it is right to charge $100/L for clean water if the water supply was tainted with a life threatening contaminant.

I am curious why people get so upset by scalping, and why they feel it is so wrong. If I dont have tickets, an event is sold out, and I cant afford to pay a scalper, I have to live with not attending the event.

[notoepik]

Scalping is slimy, but my gripe is that season ticket holders get first chance to buy the *held* tickets. People like myself are left with basically no opportunity to go to a game. I couldn't realistically buy season tickets, because I live 6 hours away. I can make it to 3 or 4 games a year.

So ticketmaster and select games are really my only opportunity to go to a game. But there is nothing available to fans like myself. I realize that the Flames want to reward season ticket holders but it really is a snub to the rest of us.

[sketchyt]

With a C-minus average attached to my Economics degree, I will attempt to diffuse your argument.

Let's go with the unrealistic notion that people will still drive with gas at $10/L (diesel will also rise proportionately) and that the TDI's are the only available diesel vehicle.

The supply of TDI's is nearly unlimited (as VW will produce what demand tells them to), while Calgary Flames tickets are not. If gas prices go up that much, the demand, therefore price, for diesel will go up as well, along with all other energy sources. Therefore, no one will drive and everyone will probably live in the dark and become cavemen. At that point, a TDI is useless.

With scalpers, if there were no laws prohibiting scalping -and because of limited supply of tickets- there would be no stopping some billionaire from buying all the flames tickets for the entire year and adding a 10% markup. It is almost a monopoly (you can argue monopolies don't exist, but this is pretty close) and we all know how the government feels about monopolies. This is why some people object to TicketMaster.

Imagine this, if you started a band and became insanely famous, all your shows would sell out. You hire a company to be in charge of selling your tickets at $10 a piece and they take a percentage. But then, because of your band's status, some guy buys all the tickets and sells them all for $11. This cycle would continue until a price ceiling is established (i.e. a price at which people would stop going to your shows). You, as band leader would be p*ssed along with your fans who would bitch at you for not doing something about it.

And besides, I would argue Flames tickets are vital for MY survival. :lol:

Now my brain hurts.

[Reaper]

Originally posted by Draug@Oct 6 2005, 03:25 PM
I dont see anything morally wrong with scalping tickets. Ive bought from scalpers in the past. Isnt it just a simple case of supply and demand? There is way more demand for a Flames ticket than there is supply. It seems reasonable that the price goes up.
It is illegal to sell tickets above face value in Alberta.

[Claeren]

I am kind of split about it. In a perfect world scalping is bad, but we live in an imperfect world.

I admit i have sold tickets for more then they are worth, but at the same time as a season ticket holder i have worked long and hard for those tickets and have supported the team in bad times and good. IF someone makes it worth it to me not to use my tickets i say it is fair game.

Also, i tend to use the profits from selling some tickets to fuel the purchase of more tickets for me, so it gets really fuzzy morally for me... lol.. kind of more abou tfueling my addiction to hockey then turning a profit!

I used ebay during the playoffs but i just can't anymore, i feel slimey...


Claeren.

PS - I should clarify, with the exception of some extra playoff tickets i sold to pay for my own playoff tickets, i used to sell the extra tickets at face value which was a profit to me but not outragous either.... I am a university student who likes to watch grown men who are paid MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dollars play a game. If they feel good about exploiting me for $100/game i don't feel so bad about selling a ticket at a small proft to me....

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

I absolutely hate scalpers and as capitalistic as I am it really does bug me.

I don't buy the supply and demand arguement, as what these scalpers is doing is artifically restricting supply. If there are 100 scalpers who buy 10 tickets to each game that is 1000 less tickets available for the public to buy at face value, and hence the demand gets pushed up even higher. If the price of tickets is going to go up should it not be the Flames who benefit, instead of the guy who's only contribution was getting to ticketmaster first?

[Claeren]

At the same time though speculative buying creates a grey market that allows 'real' fans who are willing to pay the money to see something they otherwise could not.

If 400,000 non-season ticket holding Calgarians want to see the home opener ('want' of varying degrees) you don't have very good odds of getting one of the seats. But that grey market offers a back-up to your bad luck. A 1000 less seats for sale is statistically a small price to pay for a guarenteed second chance at a ticket.

Still not a pleasent part of life, but ideally they would have 300,000 seats - but they don't.



Claeren.

PS - This is the busiest this forum has ever been, i swear! :lol:

[Draug]

Originally posted by Reaper+Oct 6 2005, 10:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Reaper @ Oct 6 2005, 10:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>It is illegal to sell tickets above face value in Alberta.[/b]
That is correct.

But, I said, "I dont see anything Morally wrong with scalping tickets."

Yes, thats right, I sometimes break a law if I dont feel it is morally wrong to do so. A personal demonstration of this is that used to have DirecTV at my house, even though the Canadian Courts have deemed it illegal to receive a digital signal that is broadcast from outside Canada. I am currently investigating how to subscribe and pay for DTV while still living in Canada. Even though its against the law, I dont see anything wrong with it. Another example would be speeding; I speed sometimes, and I would wager that everyone has disobeyed a speed limit at some point. Is it morally wrong? I dont think so, as long as no danger is imposed on anyone unwillingly.

Originally posted by sketchyt+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (sketchyt)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
With a C-minus average attached to my Economics degree, I will attempt to diffuse your argument.

Let's go with the unrealistic notion that people will still drive with gas at $10/L (diesel will also rise proportionately) and that the TDI's are the only available diesel vehicle.
[/b]

Hey, C- is better than non-existant Econ degree. My CPSC degree didnt have much economic teaching! I guess that is why my argument had so many economic holes in it. My example is contrived and unrealistic example. I was going for extreme just to help illustrate the point I was making.

<!--QuoteBegin-sketchyt@

With scalpers, if there were no laws prohibiting scalping -and because of limited supply of tickets- there would be no stopping some billionaire from buying all the flames tickets for the entire year and adding a 10% markup.
[/quote]

I guess that is what the Flames organization is for. They need to restrict how many tickets one person or group can purchase.

Hey... Arent the Flames owners that billionaire you are referring to? They bought an entire arena of seats, and the product, and sell them at a value that makes them money.

<!--QuoteBegin-sketchyt

And besides, I would argue Flames tickets are vital for MY survival.#
[/quote]

Yep, me too. Most people wouldnt think so. But, since I do, explains why I have paid scalpers for tickets in the past, and why I have season tickets. In fact, if I remember right, Claeren sold me some last year! ;) It was totally unrelated to CalgaryPuck.

[Claeren]

Really?

Not off of here though... ? I have only sold them at cost on calgarypuck.


Just want to clarify that. :)



Claeren.

[Draug]

Originally posted by Claeren@Oct 6 2005, 11:33 PM
Really?

Not off of here though... ? I have only sold them at cost on calgarypuck.


Just want to clarify that. :)



Claeren.
No, it was not off CP. In fact, I cant even be sure it was you...

For a playoff game, at one of those times when the Flames released some tickets a few hours before the game, someone bought one of the first couple rows of the balcony.

I had tickets already, but bought some for my Uncle. The fee wasnt even ridiculous... it was like $50 on a pair of $100 tickets.

[Phanuthier]

There's actually a current (and active) CP poster and former usher that got fired for scalping tickets.

Yes they are illigal, yes the Flames and the cops know, no they don't do anything about it. Oh well.

Whether you scalp it or not is up to you. Personally, I have never done it, but I can imagine it made those lucky ones alot of money in the playoffs.

[Tron_fdc]

I sold my row 1 balcony seats for game 6 of the SJ series to some guy who flew in from Cali just to watch his Sharks lose. That one sale paid the entire price of 2 seasons tickets this year. Did I rip him off? Dunno, he offered me a ridiculous amount of money for them, and seeing as I had 4 seats for the game I couldn't say no. He paid what he figured was fair market value.

That said I guess I don't really have a problem with scalpers, but I do enjoy it when you are 10 minutes late for a game and the guy with the pony tail is practically giving away his seats becuause he ran out of people to try and rip off.

[ricosuave]

the problem isnt the scalpers per se, they were there in the 80's and theyre here now.

the problem is the increased demand on all things flames (like jerseys and tickets) from fans who wouldnt know a nilson from a kipper if they bumped into them.

i know, i know, on one hand, fan support is a good thing and all, but to me, it seems that the team has just become a flavour of the month to some calgarians and that ticks me off.

rico

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally posted by Tron_fdc@Oct 6 2005, 07:13 PM
I sold my row 1 balcony seats for game 6 of the SJ series to some guy who flew in from Cali just to watch his Sharks lose. That one sale paid the entire price of 2 seasons tickets this year. Did I rip him off? Dunno, he offered me a ridiculous amount of money for them, and seeing as I had 4 seats for the game I couldn't say no. He paid what he figured was fair market value.

It's a stupid law, you didn't try and rip anyone off, he offered it to you.

it makes no sense.. the police don't even enforce it.

tickets are Fair game i say.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally posted by Bring_Back_Shantz@Oct 6 2005, 03:58 PM
I absolutely hate scalpers and as capitalistic as I am it really does bug me.

I don't buy the supply and demand arguement, as what these scalpers is doing is artifically restricting supply. If there are 100 scalpers who buy 10 tickets to each game that is 1000 less tickets available for the public to buy at face value, and hence the demand gets pushed up even higher. If the price of tickets is going to go up should it not be the Flames who benefit, instead of the guy who's only contribution was getting to ticketmaster first?
you snooze, you lose! doesn't matter if it's a scalper or a true fan, first come, first serve!

[ricosuave]

Originally posted by Flames_Gimp@Oct 6 2005, 09:18 PM
It's a stupid law, you didn't try and rip anyone off, he offered it to you.

it makes no sense.. the police don't even enforce it.

tickets are Fair game i say.
like anything.

no one is stopping you from selling your pentium 60 for $5,000 if someone is willing to pay that much for it.

rico

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally posted by ricosuave@Oct 6 2005, 08:27 PM
like anything.

no one is stopping you from selling your pentium 60 for $5,000 if someone is willing to pay that much for it.

rico
exactly!....

[Phanuthier]

Originally posted by ricosuave@Oct 7 2005, 03:27 AM
like anything.

no one is stopping you from selling your pentium 60 for $5,000 if someone is willing to pay that much for it.

rico
But when you have limited resources, it creates a monopoly, which the scalpers have.

I personally think it stinks and its complete crap, but thats in my fantasy little world, and I recognize in the real world, not everything is rosy dosy perfect.

[Winsor_Pilates]

If the tickets are gonna go for that much, I would rather the Flames were getting the extra dough than some scalper.

[calf]

Originally posted by Winsor_Pilates@Oct 6 2005, 11:03 PM
If the tickets are gonna go for that much, I would rather the Flames were getting the extra dough than some scalper.
that's what I figure too. I figure it's like intellectual property, the Flames are putting forth the effort to sell and provide the product, who the fudge has the right to profit off of someone else's labour?

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally posted by Winsor_Pilates@Oct 6 2005, 10:03 PM
If the tickets are gonna go for that much, I would rather the Flames were getting the extra dough than some scalper.
well in trons case, the flames did get the money as he bought seasons tickets with the profit.

[jam26]

Scalpers p*ss me off too, but there's not much that can be done. It's a sign of success. I personally love the sound of scalpers yelling "Who's buying, who's selling!" before a game.
It makes me a little bit more excited to be there.
I've only sold tickets for profit once. Throughout last season and the playoffs there were MANY games I couldn't make. Even in the third round, I used CP to sell my tickets for face value when I couldn't attend. When I could attend and my extra ticket was available - I did likewise. Even though it was pretty easy to get a date with that extra ticked, I'd rather have a CPer at my side than an annoying chick asking me stupid questions throughout the game.
Sadly, I had to miss Game 6 of the Finals and I was offered $1,000 for my pair (greens - and not through CP, mods!). I took advantage of it as I had invested far more than that throughout the run and wasn't in a position where I could really afford to pass that offer up.
Did I feel dirty? Yep. Would I do it again under the same circumstances? Yep.
Scalping is wrong but there are far worse things in life to be worried about.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally posted by calf@Oct 6 2005, 10:07 PM
the Flames are putting forth the effort to sell and provide the product, who the fudge has the right to profit off of someone else's labour?
you mean Like Ticketmaster? lol..