A Game of Thrones **BOOKS OFF LIMITS** v2

[SoulOfTheFlame]

MOD EDIT: RULES FOR THE THREAD

There shall be no discussion from the Song of Fire and Ice book series by George R. R. Martin. Please keep all discussion limited to the HBO televised series "Game of Thrones" and related official media (i.e. YouTube Channel video content).

Posts containing references to the books will be removed and access to the Entertainment subforum may be revoked.


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Since A Song of Ice and Fire seems to be on indefinite hold... We have something else to look forward to: The HBO series!!!!

Cast is now out: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0944947/


Sean Bean and Peter Dinkladge? The cast is freaking sick. This show is going to be great.

[EldrickOnIce]

I sill don't think we needed Sansa's rape to get that story to the point it's at.

Related, anyone remember if Winterfell has a moat?

'Needed' is a strange way to think about any created work.

[fredr123]

Interesting interview with Kit (Jon Snow)

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

If he is coming back, they are really committing to the lie.

Read that earlier. Made me think that if Kit comes back technically maybe it's not going to be as Jon Snow...

[Yeah_Baby]

'Needed' is a strange way to think about any created work.


"Required to move the story forward."

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Watch season 6 open with an hour of Bran and Hodor....

Um...good? For my money, that's the only story line that has any real fruit to bear at this point. Having super-warg Bran meet with the "3-eyed raven" and the children of the forest with all their special magic seems like a confluence of characters who can really do some special things in this series. And now that Jon Snow is gone I don't see many in the kingdom who can repel the White Walkers, which is still the main plot as far as I'm concerned.

[nfotiu]

"Required to move the story forward."

I don't really understand the criticism of that scene at all. It seemed like an integral part of the story in showing what an awful and horrible marriage it was.

To bring up her escaping with Theon as evidence it was unnecessary makes even less sense. It was that very scene that pushed Theon to start to break free of being Reek, and culminated with killing Myranda and helping Sansa escape.

[Yeah_Baby]

I just think it's funny. Leave all the story lines on cliff hangers and then ignore them for 60 minutes. But you're right. The White Walkers are the ultimate baddies.
_______ ________ is Azor Ahai reborn. And they will defeat the White Walkers.

And I have read theories of who Azor is. But that's just it. They're theories. What a strange new world we live in.

[Yeah_Baby]

I don't really understand the criticism of that scene at all. It seemed like an integral part of the story in showing what an awful and horrible marriage it was.



To bring up her escaping with Theon as evidence it was unnecessary makes even less sense. It was that very scene that pushed Theon to start to break free of being Reek, and culminated with killing Myranda and helping Sansa escape.


You're right. Theon was so impacted by it, when Sansa asked him put the candle in the tower, he ran to Ramsey.

I just don't think the rape was required, and they could have used something else to achieve those ends. Furthermore it's troubling that a women's rape wasn't about the women at all, but about a man's story arc.

[nik-]

I don't really understand the criticism of that scene at all. It seemed like an integral part of the story in showing what an awful and horrible marriage it was.

To bring up her escaping with Theon as evidence it was unnecessary makes even less sense. It was that very scene that pushed Theon to start to break free of being Reek, and culminated with killing Myranda and helping Sansa escape.

Do you legitimately not understand the criticism of that scene? It was completely gratuitous. If anyone needed that scene to inform them that Ramsey was a monster and Sansa was probably in for a bad time, then they hadn't been watching the show at all in season 3. That scene added nothing to the emotion of that escape.

[corporatejay]

Do you legitimately not understand the criticism of that scene? It was completely gratuitous. If anyone needed that scene to inform them that Ramsey was a monster and Sansa was probably in for a bad time, then they hadn't been watching the show at all in season 3. That scene added nothing to the emotion of that escape.

Well if Theon is dead (which I hope he's not) we didn't need 5 hours of torture porn either.

[nik-]

Well if Theon is dead (which I hope he's not) we didn't need 5 hours of torture porn either.

No we didn't. I think that went on way too long as well ... but "Game of Thrones" right? If you dare criticize it, you obviously just want cliche'd network dramas.

[EldrickOnIce]

No we didn't. I think that went on way too long as well ... but "Game of Thrones" right? If you dare criticize it, you obviously just want cliche'd network dramas.

That's not really it though.
No, that scene wasn't needed - it was gratuitous and vile. Like much of the show is. It's a sprawling tale, so by that very nature, a lot that is shown is not needed to push the story forward. Some is just more ugly that it needed to be.

[Yeah_Baby]

And for what it's worth, I wasn't a fan of Jamie's rape of Cersei in season 4 either. Just totally pointless in my opinion.

[troutman]

Stannis seemed resigned to his fate, and knew his march was a suicide mission. He fully realized what he had done and wanted to die. If he is alive, what role can he play? He has lost all authority.

Melissandre is a fraud, or has some other agenda. How is it she can simply ride into Castle Black where women are not included?

[Erick Estrada]

I don't think anyone is asking for a cliche, but there are some storytelling fundamentals that shows should follow. Fundamental one: don't waste time. As a fan of the show I currently feel that I've wasted all the time we've spent on Stannis. If the intent is just to state yet again that not everyone survives, then that is poor storytelling. I'm sure people here will get all up in arms again over that statement but this isn't a uncommon feeling when it comes to GoT this season.

This finale didn't leave me wondering what's about to happen. It's left me wondering how long it's going to take to get the story back on track. They go from Hardhome which looks like things are going to start to focus, and now it's looking we're heading back to more meandering, especially in the Essos storyline. Except now it's with which characters? Who is the character in the north that makes us care one iota about what happens at the Wall? Ser Davos?

#TeamWhiteWalkers I guess.

Please explain. For one thing we don't know with 100% certainty that he's actually dead. Second of all why do you feel the time was wasted because he lost the battle to the Boltons? Why should it be written in stone that he win that battle and what here left you cheated? IMO the story wraps up nicely as his story was always about a man so hell bent and determined to gain the throne that he would not take no for an answer. He gambled on black magic, ignored the weather, other obstacles, was willing to lose everything and he did. Again I simply don't understand the expectations here by some.

[Yeah_Baby]

Stannis seemed resigned to his fate, and knew his march was a suicide mission. He fully realized what he had done and wanted to die. If he is alive, what role can he play? He has lost all authority.

Melissandre is a fraud, or has some other agenda. How is it she can simply ride into Castle Black where women are not included?


Also lets not forget she thought Stannis was the Lord of Lights chosen. We saw another red priestess in Volantis preaching it was Daenerys.

And I'd like to remind everyone about good ole Thoros of Myr and his power to resurrection Beric Donndarrian.

[EldrickOnIce]

Please explain. For one thing we don't know with 100% certainty that he's actually dead. Second of all why do you feel the time was wasted because he lost the battle to the Boltons? Why should it be written in stone that he win that battle and what here left you cheated? IMO the story wraps up nicely as his story was always about a man so hell bent and determined to gain the throne that he would not take no for an answer. He gambled on black magic, ignored the weather, other obstacles, was willing to lose everything and he did. Again I simply don't understand the expectations here by some.

Exactly.
We are following the stories of everyone who wants the iron throne.
Some left the game early, some are still playing.
If Daenerys is killed later in her quest for the throne, will all that time have been wasted also? If we only followed the narrative of the one who wins in the end, it wouldn't be much of a story.

[Bigtime]

I don't know about the ultimate fate of Stannis. He was always the kind of guy to look everything in the eye (including his own daughter burning on the pyre), yet during that scene with Brienne his eyes kept straying to something off to the side.

[Coys1882]

I just don't think the rape was required, and they could have used something else to achieve those ends. Furthermore it's troubling that a women's rape wasn't about the women at all, but about a man's story arc.

Well I think one could argue it was important to show it in that not only was she raped but she was raped as a virgin on her wedding night which I assume would be even more horrific for a woman. Pair that with all the dreams and hopes she had of her wedding night with Joffery and how far that's fallen for her really drives it home. I think it really helps establish how driven she is to get away to the point she'd even Thelma and Louise it with Theon.

[Yeah_Baby]

Well I think one could argue it was important to show it in that not only was she raped but she was raped as a virgin on her wedding night which I assume would be even more horrific for a woman. Pair that with all the dreams and hopes she had of her wedding night with Joffery and how far that's fallen for her really drives it home. I think it really helps establish how driven she is to get away to the point she'd even Thelma and Louise it with Theon.


You could. But they way I viewed the rape was more about Theon than Sansa frankly. It wasn't even about Sansa having her new found agency violently taken away. It was about Theon's surrogate sister being violated to become a reason Theon becomes Theon again.

[nik-]

Please explain. For one thing we don't know with 100% certainty that he's actually dead. Second of all why do you feel the time was wasted because he lost the battle to the Boltons? Why should it be written in stone that he win that battle and what here left you cheated? IMO the story wraps up nicely as his story was always about a man so hell bent and determined to gain the throne that he would not take no for an answer. He gambled on black magic, ignored the weather, other obstacles, was willing to lose everything and he did. Again I simply don't understand the expectations here by some.

The expectation is that the stories we follow matter. Not that they get snuffed out in some side story. You may be happy with it, I'm not, I find it a waste of time to have a 5 year arc to basically get rendered irrelevant offscreen. Honestly, it would have been way better if they would have just wiped him out at Blackwater. THAT would have made sense and mattered. Instead they just drag it out for several more seasons and then it just kind of fizzles. When the first question in my head after that is "well what was the point of that then?" ... that's not ideal.


If Daenerys is killed later in her quest for the throne, will all that time have been wasted also? If we only followed the narrative of the one who wins in the end, it wouldn't be much of a story.

If Dany and her army just ended up fighting some army on Essos and she ended up losing and dying? Absolutely yes, that would render her entire storyline pointless.

[Erick Estrada]

The expectation is that the stories we follow matter. Not that they get snuffed out in some side story. You may be happy with it, I'm not, I find it a waste of time to have a 5 year arc to basically get rendered irrelevant offscreen. Honestly, it would have been way better if they would have just wiped him out at Blackwater. THAT would have made sense and mattered. Instead they just drag it out for several more seasons and then it just kind of fizzles. When the first question in my head after that is "well what was the point of that then?" ... that's not ideal.

Again you seem to think it fizzled out like you wanted him to go down in some blaze of glory in a LOTR type big battle. The thing is that in real life the bad guys usually do fizzle out. There's nothing Hollywood about relatively quiet demises of Hitler or bin Laden. Also I wouldn't call it a side story seeing his story consumed a large portion of this season. I feel some of you simply get too emotionally attached to characters and of all shows this is not the show to do that.

[Erick Estrada]

If Dany and her army just ended up fighting some army on Essos and she ended up losing and dying? Absolutely yes, that would render her entire storyline pointless.

Expecting story lines to wrap up in some chronological or formulaic order is simply not what this show does. The show is about the "Game of Thrones" and that game only as investing in characters or storylines is setting yourself up for disappointment.

I feel some of you have got a little too comfortable with the series and forgot what it's all about and what made it refreshing in the first place. From season 1 on we learned that anyone can die at any time with abrupt endings to storylines. That has not changed nor should it.

[nik-]

Again you seem to think it fizzled out like you wanted him to go down in some blaze of glory in a LOTR type big battle. The thing is that in real life the bad guys usually do fizzle out. There's nothing Hollywood about relatively quiet demises of Hitler or bin Laden. Also I wouldn't call it a side story seeing his story consumed a large portion of this season. I feel some of you simply get too emotionally attached to characters and of all shows this is not the show to do that.

Read this: No one is asking for a Hollywood ending. I really don't know how many times people need to post this before you understand it, but we gotta be on like 5-6 times at this point.

This isn't real life, it's entertainment so the laughable comparisons to Hitler and Bin Laden are so irrelevant. It's a TV Show that has 10 hours a year to explain a dozen different storylines. When you have that many storylines and that little time, you don't waste time on dead ends if you're a good storyteller. Part of the problem is that they consumed a large portion of the season on this story and it ended up being pointless. That's not good TV. It's not about emotional attachment (I don't think anyone was rooting for Stannis after he burned his daughter to death) it's about a grand arch of a story that has limited time to be told and they just spent like 30% of the season on something that could have been wrapped up years ago.

Basically Stannis storyline was like this.

- I'm the true king
- I ghost assassinated my brother
- I lost bad at Blackwater
- I regrouped and got a loan
- OH #### ... WHITE WALKERS ARE THE TRUE THREAT, MUST HEAD NORTH (oh yay, the real storyline)
- Naw .... nm, I'll just start my war to reclaim the throne again, burn my daughter, head south and get wiped out

... what? What is the point of everything after Blackwater if it just ends up at the same result.

Do you understand the difference between that complaint and wanting some Disney prince to ride out of the sky on a rainbow blowing us all kisses and how they're not the same?

Expecting story lines to wrap up in some chronological or formulaic order is simply not what this show does. The show is about the "Game of Thrones" and that game only as investing in characters or storylines is setting yourself up for disappointment.

I feel some of you have got a little too comfortable with the series and forgot what it's all about and what made it refreshing in the first place. From season 1 on we learned that anyone can die at any time with abrupt endings to storylines. That has not changed nor should it.

Not only has it not changed, it hasn't evolved at all. Sorry, a show where a bunch of people just fall off and never advance the arc is a bad show. If you're blown away by the same things you were in season one, then good for you. I'm hoping this show has a grander plan than just reinforcing that the good guy doesn't always win.

[The Familia]

What would you say if they end the entire series/books with the White Walkers winning? Imagine they come south and literally destroy everything including Dany and the dragons. Would the entire show have been worthless or pointless? If the writers really want to be responsible for 1000's of suicides, they would do something similar to that. What should the ending be? Dany rides into King's Landing, takes the throne and the whole world shakes hands and celebrates with each other?

[nik-]

What would you say if they end the entire series/books with the White Walkers winning? Imagine they come south and literally destroy everything including Dany and the dragons. Would the entire show have been worthless or pointless? If the writers really want to be responsible for 1000's of suicides, they would do something similar to that. What should the ending be? Dany rides into King's Landing, takes the throne and the whole world shakes hands and celebrates with each other?

Nope, that would be amazing. You would have a grand story about the pettiness of man and the myopia on "power" leading to the downfall of everyone.

[Coys1882]

What is the point of everything after Blackwater if it just ends up at the same result. To me it's not always about how it ends and if it's all wrapped up in nice little package of resolution.

Stannis went for the brass ring and failed. What was it all for in the end? Nothing. Like Napoleon after Waterloo - exile in Saint Helena til his death. What was all that war and conquest for in the end? Nothing.

[Flash Walken]

Count me as fortunate that I didn't have anyone spoiler that stuff for me.

That whole episode was shocking to me.

Great TV.

[Coys1882]

You would have a grand story about the pettiness of man and the myopia on "power" leading to the downfall of everyone.

I think we're seeing that every season on a smaller more individual scale.

[nik-]

I think we're seeing that every season on a smaller more individual scale.

Which has already been done over and over on this show. I'm hoping for some evolution, not retreading the same thing with different characters.

[Yeah_Baby]

What should the ending be? Dany rides into King's Landing, takes the throne and the whole world shakes hands and celebrates with each other?


So this?

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/15/07cf612ecd5e36fd2e5c78fcaa60418a.jpg

[Bobblehead]

re: Sansa's rape.

It showed that
a) the Strength Sansa appeared to have learned from Lord Baelish was ripped away
b) that even though Roose Bolton had explicitly told Ramsay of Sansa's importance, once behind closed doors it was forgotten.
c) that reek was still reek and even Sansa's appearance wasn't enough to bring Theon back.

And that 'c' point set up the scene in the finale. Reek had betrayed Sansa twice. That he would finally find the fortitude to save Sansa now was made more impactful by the earlier events. Yeah, we knew Ramsay is vile and Theon was broken. But in order to set up Theon's redemption we needed to see exactly how far he had fallen. We needed to see him cower when someone he had grown up with was the person in Ramsay's sights.

This is Game of Thrones and Martin has been very consistent about saying how he wants to go against the prevailing fantasy tropes. No character is wholly good of wholly evil. The medieval world is vicious and amoral. The good guy doesn't always win or even survive. That some long running characters eventually fall in a non-heroic manner is entirely consistent with what Martin is trying to achieve.

[EldrickOnIce]

Stolen from twitter

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGY6nsHUkAIev76.jpg

[Yeah_Baby]

(Book nonsense that's ads nothing to the conversation)

[RyZ]

Is there a way to mute posters in individual threads? Its tough to come into the tread and see the same poster or 2 bitching and whining about the same stuff they were bitching and whining about 2-3 weeks ago.

That being said, great episode. The first half of the season was a little slower than usual but the 2nd half of the season was fantastic and I'm on the edge of my seat for S6. Once again, the 9 month long break will be agonizing unless we get the 6th book at some time in between (fat chance).

The Arya and Cersei scenes from last nights episode were the highlites, but I was fine with how they did pretty much everything.

[cDnStealth]

I've mostly enjoyed Game of Thrones for the acting and the production values of the show. Nothing else on TV comes close.

I think Martin is great at world building and creating interesting characters but I feel that he fails to deliver when it comes to the plot. He spends so much time building up an event only to chop it off at the knees before it hits the climax. I know some people are going to read that and immediately throw it back in my face suggesting I am upset over so-and-so being killed.

I am not mad or upset over characters being killed, nor am I outraged over certain scenes. I've watched it for six seasons so I know what Game of Thrones is all about. However, as I was watching Jon Snow get the Julius Caesar treatment it dawned on me that I've been viewing this show as I would a B-horror flick. To see who is going to be killed off next and in what way.

I've said it before but I haven't been shocked by a character's death since Ned's in season one. I've been shocked by the manner in which some characters have met their end but not by their deaths in sense of how it impacts the plot. Jon's death had zero emotional impact on me last night. I sat there and thought, so what? Is that how a major character's death should be received by the viewer/reader? Death has no meaning in this story because Martin wields it like a bulldozer.

One of my favorite fantasy authors routinely kills major characters and it's significant both emotionally and in terms of driving the plot forward. With Martin I feel that characters are killed haphazardly. Their deaths fall flat and the plot essentially get reset. None of these stories feel like they're going anywhere.

This isn't a rage-quit post. I like the show and will continue to watch it but I am not going to pretend that Martin is a literary genius. Some people are convinced he his but I just don't see it.

[Fire]

I think there is zero chance Jon Snow is dead or remains dead. I have a hard time believing they would kill off the only important character at the wall.

On the other side I think there is virtually zero chance Stannis is still alive. Brienne would't let him live after he admitted he killed Renly.

[MrMastodonFarm]

It isn't Sansa in the books who gets raped. We place that solely at the foot of Benioff and Weiss.
Since when did it become okay to talk about the books in this thread?

[EldrickOnIce]

nm

[Yeah_Baby]

Since when did it become okay to talk about the books in this thread?


You're right. I'm sorry. It was an error in judgement. Please don't report me.

I'll edit the post.

[nik-]

Is there a way to mute posters in individual threads? Its tough to come into the tread and see the same poster or 2 bitching and whining about the same stuff they were bitching and whining about 2-3 weeks ago.

That being said, great episode. The first half of the season was a little slower than usual but the 2nd half of the season was fantastic and I'm on the edge of my seat for S6. Once again, the 9 month long break will be agonizing unless we get the 6th book at some time in between (fat chance).

The Arya and Cersei scenes from last nights episode were the highlites, but I was fine with how they did pretty much everything.

Scroll wheel or ignore and stop whining.

[burn_this_city]

Pretty sure everyone dies eventually, the walkers win and the story ends with a fad out of the walker King walking the steps up to the iron throne.

[MrMastodonFarm]

You're right. I'm sorry. It was an error in judgement. Please don't report me.

I'll edit the post.

It's cool. We've seen it become a bit muddy as the show catches up with the books but I think the general rules of the thread should remain.

[Erick Estrada]

To me it's not always about how it ends and if it's all wrapped up in nice little package of resolution.

Stannis went for the brass ring and failed. What was it all for in the end? Nothing. Like Napoleon after Waterloo - exile in Saint Helena til his death. What was all that war and conquest for in the end? Nothing.

There you go making laughable comparisons to real life. According to Nik it's entertainment and should shun real life examples in order to follow the typical color by numbers Hollywood story lines.;)

[nik-]

There you go making laughable comparisons to real life. According to Nik it's entertainment and should shun real life examples in order to follow the typical color by numbers Hollywood story lines.;)

:rolleyes:

Like I said, I'm glad you're still blown away by the same retreads from season 1. Some of us want advancement. Apparently to you that means I want a fairytale ending, but you're also still amazed that "anyone can die!!!! ... this isn't the same as every show!!!"

[Erick Estrada]

Pretty sure everyone dies eventually, the walkers win and the story ends with a fad out of the walker King walking the steps up to the iron throne.

It will be interesting to see how they wrap up the show. Barring mother nature intervening it's hard to imagine humans with hand to hand weapons defeating an enemy that gets larger in number as a battle progresses with the dead joining them.

[Bobblehead]

If any of the show watchers want more detailed history/back story/theories that may have come from the books, wander over to the book thread.

The show is now 97% in sync and the remaining differences may not ever be covered in the show. So any spoilers that may still exist either won't ever happen or would be so minor in scope as to be irrelevant.

And book readers - keep the status quo. Only TV canon in this thread.

That way the "Unsullied Show Watchers" won't be burdened with what would essentially be trivia for them.

[Erick Estrada]

:rolleyes:

Like I said, I'm glad you're still blown away by the same retreads from season 1. Some of us want advancement. Apparently to you that means I want a fairytale ending, but you're also still amazed that "anyone can die!!!! ... this isn't the same as every show!!!"

It's astonishing it took you five seasons to realize this show isn't for you.;)

[nik-]

It's astonishing it took you five seasons to realize this show isn't for you.;)

Yeah, I guess it's just too hardcore for me bro

[Inglewood Jack]

I'm told that Jon's death was the mega spoiler that got that one guy banned a couple weeks back. that really sucks for anyone who read it cause then it's in the back of your mind the whole time and you're not watching the show the same way you would without any knowledge. as I mentioned earlier, google did it for me a long time ago when I typed in Jon Snow to look up his wiki page and immediately got "John Snow dead" as the first option. eff you autosuggest.

Jon's death is more in line with how the other Stark men bit the dust, with plenty of people around them warning that they were doing it wrong (shoulda listened to Stannis when he told you to send Thorne away). so it sucks he's gone, but in my mind the story at least earned it a bit more than some of the other recent shockers.

oh what a waste of magical king's blood though. I sort of wanted the scene to end with Melisandre running over frantically with a jar and ladle to save some for spellcasting next season.

[Jason14h]

Stannis getting destroyed in an off the screen pathetic manor sums up exactly how his life had changed.

He murdered his brother, sacrificed his daughter, his wife killed himself.

His troops abandoned him. His sell-swords (Mercs) left.

He had transformed from a person wanting the good of the Kingdom to a power hungry maniac willing to do anything to get it.

His final act of insanity was marching a starving, undermanned, no cavalry army to certain doom.

As so many before him his final moments (assuming he is dead) were realizing this was all his fault. Summed up by the "Any final words" response

Like all the characters in this world, Stannis had good and bad traits. Was he a hero or a villian? He changed several times.

In the end he got a pathetic ending as he had become a pathetic man.

[RyZ]

Scroll wheel or ignore and stop whining.

http://vkphotoprovider0.vk-cdn.nl/photoprovider/artikel/10/8/14/28f42ada4ae72f5528796b7b4115d8bb/3023594/610x2048/3023594.jpeg

It's ok man. Its all over now.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I've mostly enjoyed Game of Thrones for the acting and the production values of the show. Nothing else on TV comes close.

I think Martin is great at world building and creating interesting characters but I feel that he fails to deliver when it comes to the plot. He spends so much time building up an event only to chop it off at the knees before it hits the climax. I know some people are going to read that and immediately throw it back in my face suggesting I am upset over so-and-so being killed.

I am not mad or upset over characters being killed, nor am I outraged over certain scenes. I've watched it for six seasons so I know what Game of Thrones is all about. However, as I was watching Jon Snow get the Julius Caesar treatment it dawned on me that I've been viewing this show as I would a B-horror flick. To see who is going to be killed off next and in what way.

I've said it before but I haven't been shocked by a character's death since Ned's in season one. I've been shocked by the manner in which some characters have met their end but not by their deaths in sense of how it impacts the plot. Jon's death had zero emotional impact on me last night. I sat there and thought, so what? Is that how a major character's death should be received by the viewer/reader? Death has no meaning in this story because Martin wields it like a bulldozer.

One of my favorite fantasy authors routinely kills major characters and it's significant both emotionally and in terms of driving the plot forward. With Martin I feel that characters are killed haphazardly. Their deaths fall flat and the plot essentially get reset. None of these stories feel like they're going anywhere.

This isn't a rage-quit post. I like the show and will continue to watch it but I am not going to pretend that Martin is a literary genius. Some people are convinced he his but I just don't see it.

You may not agree with me, but the end of last season with Tyrion finding Shae in his father's bed, killing her, and then killing his father was quite an emotional turn for the character and the audience. I was particularly blown away by that turn of events.

As far as Jon Snow goes, he's been making his own bed for most of this season. Previous seasons he spent a lot of time with the Wildlings and even had a Wildling girlfriend which was already too much for some. Then he narrowly wins a close vote to become the youngest commander ever, having less than 50% of the support of the Watch. Then, as Stannis burns Mance Rayder against Snow's advice, he shows mercy to the Wildling king who led an attack that killed many in the Watch; not winning anyone over there. After that, he makes a peace treaty with the Wildlings who are the sworn enemy of the Watch, again pissing off many of his own people and probably losing some to the other side. He then goes on an expedition to try and bring the tribes behind the wall, ends up losing more of the Watch that was loyal to him in the battle, and further alienates the rest of the Watch by undermining every purpose the Night's Watch has been instilled with, keeping undesirables on the other side of the wall. It was only a matter of time before they viewed him as a threat to their very way of life and took matters in their own hands. In this universe, those who strive for doing what's virtuous while ignoring politics end up dead. Jon Snow should have paid more attention to this and took his chance to reclaim Winterfell instead of staying virtuous and remaining at the Night's Watch. He had poor instincts for self-preservation, just like his father and half brother.

[Winsor_Pilates]

I don't think Jon or Stannis are dead.

We know anyone can be killed, but the other major character deaths moved the plot forward in big ways.
In this case, I think both plots get stronger with them alive (in some form).

I wish season 6 started in July.

[Looch City]

Alternate ending:

wALRfzF52kc

[Fire]

It will be interesting to see how they wrap up the show. Barring mother nature intervening it's hard to imagine humans with hand to hand weapons defeating an enemy that gets larger in number as a battle progresses with the dead joining them.

It will have to be the Dragons burning the walkers to a crisp. Not sure what else it could be.

[Flash Walken]

Alternate ending:

wALRfzF52kc

This was me last night.

"OOOH BENJIN! He knows Jon's True Identiy, he'll be able t-OH GOD THE IDES OF MARCH!"

[MrMastodonFarm]

Nice fake out by the show showing all those Benjin scenes in the "previously on" portion too.

[Jbo]

Well, since wandering over to the other thread on Bobbleheads advice, I've had two characters deaths spoiled. So I would exercise caution going over there.

[Inglewood Jack]

Well, since wandering over to the other thread on Bobbleheads advice, I've had two characters deaths spoiled. So I would exercise caution going over there.

yeah...that invitation just screamed white van with "Free Candy" spray painted on the side. he promised 97% synchronized, doesn't mean there aren't some big bombs in that remaining 3%.

[Yeah_Baby]

yeah...that invitation just screamed white van with "Free Candy" spray painted on the side. he promised 97% synchronized, doesn't mean there aren't some big bombs in that remaining 3%.


They're not that big.

[Bobblehead]

Really?

I'm sorry if it did.

If you want a "pure" tv viewing experience then don't go in there.

Those 2 that you mention - if they are who I think you mean then - seriously?

But once again, I didn't mean to imply that everything was in sync, and I apologize if anyone took it that way.

[underGRADFlame]

My take is Stanis is dead dead... Jon is only mostly dead... Miracle Max... errr I mean the Red Woman will resurrect the most dead Jon or try to like Thoros of Myr did. From there its anyone's guess.

I used to think the mind of Stephen King was messed up, GRRM has taken things to a new level.

[Looch City]

Here's something we can all agree on:

The most cringe worthy scene in the entire episode and/or season...when Tyene leans into Bronn and whispers "you want a good girl, but you need the bad #####".

[MrMastodonFarm]

Here's something we can all agree on:

The most cringe worthy scene in the entire episode and/or season...when Tyene leans into Bronn and whispers "you want a good girl, but you need the bad #####".

The only cringe was the one, in my pants.


(from my erection)

[Winsor_Pilates]

Was reading another analysis of the episode and it brought up an interesting point.

At the Wall, they burn the bodies of the dead to avoid any white walker resurrections. This would lead you to expect the burning of Jon Snow's body which could get interesting.

If the well known theory about his parents is true, and with the red women around, I could easily see some sort of fire resurrection.

The more I think about it, the less and less likely it is that Jon is dead dead.

[Yamer]

They're not that big.

I'm only 3/4 through the 4th book and there are some fairly significant plot points that haven't occurred in the TV series.

Relax not and fret still, my friends, there is still enough of the books already published that could possibly be used as spoilers for season 6.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the episode itself, it felt super-rushed up until the atonement scene. They sure didn't mind dragging out a nude Lena Headey marching through the streets. Just a lot of stuff jammed into a single hour that I feel may have been better served stretched out or at least separated a bit.

I'm not sure if Jon lives or dies. Melissandre returning to the Wall abruptly leads you to believe it's a possibility, but her demeanor after returning screams 'I've lost faith'. Stannis' execution wasn't shown on screen, so that could go either way.

Gotta admit, as Jon was getting the full Caesar I was pretty pissed off. Pangs of "that's it, I'm done" coursed through me. He's one of only 2 characters I have any emotional investiture in (the other being Tyrion), so to see him slaughtered at the hands of his own men after defeating a Whitewalker in single combat was infuriating on a number of levels.

On a side note, and acknowledging that everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just don't understand how anyone, having not seen the entire series to its conclusion, can declare that any sub-story/plot is pointless or a waste of time. There is still a large portion of the narrative to go, and anything and everything that happens could have large repercussions going forward. Hell, Meryn Trant's murder is a direct result of his off-screen actions in the eighth episode of season 1.

Not the best episode of the series in my view, but it has me pretty-well hooked for the premier of season 6.

[Yamer]

Was reading another analysis of the episode and it brought up an interesting point.

At the Wall, they burn the bodies of the dead to avoid any white walker resurrections. This would lead you to expect the burning of Jon Snow's body which could get interesting.

If the well known theory about his parents is true, and with the red women around, I could easily see some sort of fire resurrection.

The more I think about it, the less and less likely it is that Jon is dead dead.

Jon burning his hand on the lantern he threw at the wight to save Commander Mormont would indicate he isn't immune to fire in the vein of those special Targaryens.

[Jbo]

Jon burning his hand on the lantern he threw at the wight to save Commander Mormont would indicate he isn't immune to fire in the vein of those special Targaryens.

Dany's brother also died when he got the gold "crown" poured over his head. He was a full Targaryen.

[Yamer]

Dany's brother also died when he got the gold "crown" poured over his head. He was a full Targaryen.

Yep. I guess he could be of the Targaryen line, but not imbued with the same power as Dany.

Not buying into the theory, personally.

[Jbo]

Yep. I guess he could be of the Targaryen line, but not imbued with the same power as Dany.

Not buying into the theory, personally.

Agree. I think Jon is dead, but will be resurrected as something evil.

[activeStick]

So what happened in the Arya scene? Who drank the poison and died? And why were Arya's eyes all weird??

[nik-]

So what happened in the Arya scene? Who drank the poison and died? And why were Arya's eyes all weird??

Everyone ... and no one.

[activeStick]

Whaaaaat???

[FlamesAddiction]

The best part of the episode is when Reek pushed what's her face off the skywalk. Such a satisfying splat. And Arya blinding Trant before killing him... awesome.

I do think that Melissandre resurrects Jon Snow using blood magic. It's just way too convenient that she is there as Jon was assassinated. I am not sure that it will be Jon as we know him though. Although apparently the director was lamenting today how much they are going to miss having Kit Harington around for filming... I am hoping they are just playing it up though, especially how after last season the producers were upset when Kristian Nairn spilled the beans about the Brann story line being on hold. They like to keep their cards close.

Not sure if this needs to be in spoiler tags, probably not since I am going out on a limb, but just in case:

It's sometimes "spoilerish" to go on IMDB because you can make educated guesses on who is about to depart a series by how much other work they have coming up (not just GoT, but in general). If you go on IMDB, Kit Harington has nothing pending for 2015 or 2016, but if he was set to be unemployed for real, you would think he'd have something lined up already considering his popularity at the moment. For that matter, even surviving actors usually have other projects on the side.

[Igottago]

Season was pretty poor in my opinion. Relying on cheap shocks now, mostly pretty telegraphed. Most plot lines dragged and became uninteresting too. Way too much useless filler as well. Huge drop in quality this season. I don't wanna say jumped the shark, but close.

[GGG]

I find the complaints that people's story lines are wasted ignores the complexity of the world.

At a high level GoT is a relationship drama where Martin moves charactors around to put them together and watch them react. The hound and Arya, Brienne and her Squire, Sansa and Little finger etc. The events of the world cause the movements in charactors.

For example Stannis smoke baby used to kill his brother causes the Tyrells to have to ally with Lannisyers which moves old lady tyrel to kings landing setting up her amazing scenes. It also frees Brienne to become Catelyn Starks guard which allows Catelyn to set Jaimie free which partly leads to Robs death. It also sets up the great Brienne road trips.

And that smoke baby eventually is the final nail in Stannis.

So unless another plot device was used the Stannis smoke baby was necessary. I find Martin very efficient at using key events to move people where they need to be for the next series of events.

[Caged Great]

Season was pretty poor in my opinion. Relying on cheap shocks now, mostly pretty telegraphed. Most plot lines dragged and became uninteresting too. Way too much useless filler as well. Huge drop in quality this season. I don't wanna say jumped the shark, but close.

They concluded the first war in season 4, this season was a "shift all the pieces into place" series of episodes and next year will be the beginning of the second war with the white walkers.

This season was going to be not as good because it was all a transition from point A to point B.

[FlamesAddiction]

tTOcrUA8erk

:->

[GGG]

Season was pretty poor in my opinion. Relying on cheap shocks now, mostly pretty telegraphed. Most plot lines dragged and became uninteresting too. Way too much useless filler as well. Huge drop in quality this season. I don't wanna say jumped the shark, but close.

Instead of telegraphed you could say well foreshadowed. I thought Jon Snows death if he is really dead was handled very well.

Mereen was good

The sparrow was good.

The battle was the best yet.

Arya was great.

Drone was poor
Stannis was okay
Ramsey was poor

All in a good season.

[nik-]

They concluded the first war in season 4, this season was a "shift all the pieces into place" series of episodes and next year will be the beginning of the second war with the white walkers.

This season was going to be not as good because it was all a transition from point A to point B.

What pieces were moved in place from your perspective? Stannis is gone so I guess that's a move. Sansa is one the run, just like she was at the start of the season. Brienne is looking for Sansa, just like the start of the season. Dany actually regressed. Cersei is back in the Red Keep and angry.

Episodes move pieces, not entire seasons. It was definitely the worst seasons and a lot of the complaints I had this year I've never had about this show. Lets hope next year picks it back up. Hardhome gave me so much hope after a poor start ... and then it just kinda meh'd its way to the end.

[Mike F]

You're right. Theon was so impacted by it, when Sansa asked him put the candle in the tower, he ran to Ramsey.

I just don't think the rape was required, and they could have used something else to achieve those ends. Furthermore it's troubling that a women's rape wasn't about the women at all, but about a man's story arc.

You could. But they way I viewed the rape was more about Theon than Sansa frankly. It wasn't even about Sansa having her new found agency violently taken away. It was about Theon's surrogate sister being violated to become a reason Theon becomes Theon again.

Sansa on the parapet at arrow point: " I know what Ramsay is and what he'll do to me. If I'm going to die, let it happen while there's still some of me left."

She doesn't get to that point if she's simply shuttered away in her room being forced to eat cold Camembert.

[Inglewood Jack]

so, Littlefinger pretty much effed up this year eh? advantage: Varys.

[Looch City]

http://i.imgur.com/NxATfmkl.jpg

[Winsor_Pilates]

What pieces were moved in place from your perspective? Stannis is gone so I guess that's a move.

It's hard to say right now, not knowing exactly how the Stannis and Jon Snow deaths will play out.
2 huge characters seemingly killed off in pretty meaningless fashions. I'm sure there's more to it and dead or alive, they will play huge impacts on events to come.
Those are major pieces moving, we just don't know where to yet.

[V]

I thought the transformation and demise of Stannis was awesome to watch. I don't need it to lead to some grand conclusion. It was perfect.

[Thor]

My favorite image of the finale, exactly what I was thinking as it was happening.

http://i.imgur.com/WrPzJtB.jpg

[ScorchyScorch]

I was actually more upset about Stannis quick decline to his demise than about Jon. However, I knew about Jon's fate beforehand.

And I kind of hate Melisandre for leading him to his end. Of course she just up and leaves as he was about to march..ticked me right off. Him and Davos had Jon's support and that's good enough for me to get behind. I was actaully getting invested in their camp even though I knew Stannis wasn't exactly good. Thing is he was the only one of the contenders that actually gave two ####s about the realm. But if both have truly perished then I think I'll cease to care. I mean it'll be enjoyable to watch I'm sure but my "guys" are out. It's like watching the cup finals when it's two teams you kind of hate and certainly don't care for. I don't care to see Dany sit on the iron throne. She's gotten her way too often over the entire show and hasn't had to face the trials that other characters have. I'd just like to see some sort of clashing or game of sorts (ala Holmes vs Moriarty) between Littlefinger and Varys, and to see Tyrion get immensely wealthy and powerful, and have all the women. As long as those things happen, the white walkers can wipe everyone out. I won't be sad.

#### you Brienne of 'Tard
#### you Melisandre and your lord of lies, too
#### you Dorne, for being so underwhelming
#### you Arya, stop making friends with bad people
#### you army of the dead, y u so slow?
#### you Ser Allister Traitorface
#### you Olly, how can you look Jon in his doe eyes and shank him?
#### you Tormund, where you go??
#### you Sam, crows before hoes.
#### you Ramsay, but keep up the evilness :yay:

[getbak]

My favorite image of the finale, exactly what I was thinking as it was happening.
Yup, I had barely finished saying, "well, she's going to die," when her nose started bleeding.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I'm worried that the show has killed off so many powerful characters without introducing and developing new ones that this show will simply run out of characters who can actually make any impact on events. In previous seasons it was all you could do just to keep up with who is who and where they rank in the power structure. Now you have less than 10 to really consider, and most are so far apart from each other that they have no impact on one another.

*Question marks indicates questionable political power.

King's Landing: Cersei w/ Frankenmountain, Tyrell clan (2 in prison, 1 in Braavos), Littlefinger, Qyburn?, Tommen?, High Sparrow.

The South: Doran Martell, Ellaria Sand and Sand Snakes?

The North: Roose Bolton, Ramsay Bolton, Sansa Stark, Reek/Theon?, Brienne of Tarth?, Ser Alliser Thorne, Sam Tarly?, Melisandre?

North of the Wall: Bran and Hodor?, 3-eyed Raven?, Children of the Forest?, White Walkers and the army of the undead.

Essos: Daenerys Targaryen and her dragons, Grey Worm and the Unsullied?, Tyrion Lannister and Varys, Ser Jorah Mormont and Daario Naharis?, Arya Stark and Jaqen H'ghar?

Unknown location: Thoros of Myr and Beric Dondarrion?, Rickon Stark and Osha?

They've thinned the cast so much that there's very little left to choose from to have an actual story next season. I imagine you will see the introduction of many characters very early in next season which will drastically slow down the plot for probably half a season. Outside of furthering the plot in a few locations, there will be almost nothing happening for the next while.

[Thor]

Yup, I had barely finished saying, "well, she's going to die," when her nose started bleeding.

Soon as she kissed her on the mouth, found that to be very odd, figured something bad was going to happen.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Ok here's what I don't get

Myrcella is dead
Stannis is dead
Selyse is dead
Jon is dead
Myran Trant is dead
Jaqen H'ghar/No One is dead
Myranda is dead

Who The Bloody Hell Got Married?!?!

[nfotiu]

Soon as she kissed her on the mouth, found that to be very odd, figured something bad was going to happen.

Am I the only one who thought he was going to end up sleeping with his daughter too!

[Caged Great]

What pieces were moved in place from your perspective? Stannis is gone so I guess that's a move. Sansa is one the run, just like she was at the start of the season. Brienne is looking for Sansa, just like the start of the season. Dany actually regressed. Cersei is back in the Red Keep and angry.

Episodes move pieces, not entire seasons. It was definitely the worst seasons and a lot of the complaints I had this year I've never had about this show. Lets hope next year picks it back up. Hardhome gave me so much hope after a poor start ... and then it just kinda meh'd its way to the end.

Dany is now in a position where she may be able to convince the Khal of the group to join her as she continues her journey.

Theon is beginning his redemption, and Sansa is coming into her own as she is realizing how evil the world is and that she can't be the delicate flower that she was in the early seasons.

The Lannisters are undergoing their fall from grace and the arrogance of Cersei will be their undoing. Cersei is not smart and when she is angry she is prone to even more mistakes. King's Landing is set to collapse in on itself with religious zealots.

Jon Snow (whether he is dead or not) and the members on the wall on both sides are going to have some conflict as the real enemy is at their door.

Now things can build towards the second conflict between the white walkers and the race of man. Next season will likely be more like the first where incidents will cause all the pieces to fall into place for the next war.

[Dime_On_Flames]

god damn this show :mad:

It's like a really bad girlfriend. She keeps breaking your heart over and over but you still keep going back to her....

[EldrickOnIce]

I'm worried that the show has killed off so many powerful characters without introducing and developing new ones that this show will simply run out of characters who can actually make any impact on events. In previous seasons it was all you could do just to keep up with who is who and where they rank in the power structure. Now you have less than 10 to really consider, and most are so far apart from each other that they have no impact on one another.

*Question marks indicates questionable political power.

King's Landing: Cersei w/ Frankenmountain, Tyrell clan (2 in prison, 1 in Braavos), Littlefinger, Qyburn?, Tommen?, High Sparrow.

The South: Doran Martell, Ellaria Sand and Sand Snakes?

The North: Roose Bolton, Ramsay Bolton, Sansa Stark, Reek/Theon?, Brienne of Tarth?, Ser Alliser Thorne, Sam Tarly?, Melisandre?

North of the Wall: Bran and Hodor?, 3-eyed Raven?, Children of the Forest?, White Walkers and the army of the undead.

Essos: Daenerys Targaryen and her dragons, Grey Worm and the Unsullied?, Tyrion Lannister and Varys, Ser Jorah Mormont and Daario Naharis?, Arya Stark and Jaqen H'ghar?

Unknown location: Thoros of Myr and Beric Dondarrion?, Rickon Stark and Osha?

They've thinned the cast so much that there's very little left to choose from to have an actual story next season. I imagine you will see the introduction of many characters very early in next season which will drastically slow down the plot for probably half a season. Outside of furthering the plot in a few locations, there will be almost nothing happening for the next while.
According to the producers, there might be just 2 seasons left. Not a lot of time really.
Ultimately need three to ride/control the Dragons. Outside of their potential impact in defeating the white walkers, I don't think there is much other hope left in the seven kingdoms.

1. Daenerys
2. ?
3. ?

[Larry David]

I was actually more upset about Stannis quick decline to his demise than about Jon. However, I knew about Jon's fate beforehand.

And I kind of hate Melisandre for leading him to his end. Of course she just up and leaves as he was about to march..ticked me right off. Him and Davos had Jon's support and that's good enough for me to get behind. I was actaully getting invested in their camp even though I knew Stannis wasn't exactly good. Thing is he was the only one of the contenders that actually gave two ####s about the realm. But if both have truly perished then I think I'll cease to care. I mean it'll be enjoyable to watch I'm sure but my "guys" are out. It's like watching the cup finals when it's two teams you kind of hate and certainly don't care for. I don't care to see Dany sit on the iron throne. She's gotten her way too often over the entire show and hasn't had to face the trials that other characters have. I'd just like to see some sort of clashing or game of sorts (ala Holmes vs Moriarty) between Littlefinger and Varys, and to see Tyrion get immensely wealthy and powerful, and have all the women. As long as those things happen, the white walkers can wipe everyone out. I won't be sad.

#### you Brienne of 'Tard
#### you Melisandre and your lord of lies, too
#### you Dorne, for being so underwhelming
#### you Arya, stop making friends with bad people
#### you army of the dead, y u so slow?
#### you Ser Allister Traitorface
#### you Olly, how can you look Jon in his doe eyes and shank him?
#### you Tormund, where you go??
#### you Sam, crows before hoes.
#### you Ramsay, but keep up the evilness :yay:

I could be completely wrong about this, but I’m pretty sure there is more to it then what is leading on. At first glance it looks like Melisandre is bailing when the going gets tough. I don’t believe is the case at all. I believe in that moment Melisandre had an epiphany. Melisandre sacrificed Shireen to save the champion of light. When the snow melted, it wasn’t for Stannis, it was so that she could get to the wall to save the true champion of light, Jon Snow. She didn’t realize it until that last moment with Stannis. She will bring Jon back to life and Jon will be released from his vow of the Nights Watch because he had “died” before being resurrected by the Red Lady.
When you go back and rewatch the episode where Melisandre sees Jon for the first time, she notices something about him. Initially you may think that she may see him as a kings blood sacrifice, but I believe she sees something great in him but not sure what yet. She realized it was in that moment that final moment with Stannis that it was Jon who is the champion of light. I also believe the “I’ve been worrying about Jon for years he always comes back” line from Sam Tarly to be some serious foreshadowing, along with "Kill the boy and let the man be born" from Maester Aemon.

[ScorchyScorch]

I could be completely wrong about this, but I’m pretty sure there is more to it then what is leading on. At first glance it looks like Melisandre is bailing when the going gets tough. I don’t believe is the case at all. I believe in that moment Melisandre had an epiphany. Melisandre sacrificed Shireen to save the champion of light. When the snow melted, it wasn’t for Stannis, it was so that she could get to the wall to save the true champion of light, Jon Snow. She didn’t realize it until that last moment with Stannis. She will bring Jon back to life and Jon will be released from his vow of the Nights Watch because he had “died” before being resurrected by the Red Lady.
When you go back and rewatch the episode where Melisandre sees Jon for the first time, she notices something about him. Initially you may think that she may see him as a kings blood sacrifice, but I believe she sees something great in him but not sure what yet. She realized it was in that moment that final moment with Stannis that it was Jon who is the champion of light. I also believe the “I’ve been worrying about Jon for years he always comes back” line from Sam Tarly to be some serious foreshadowing.

Yup. That's the hope, anyways. And here's a thought. She saw Stannis overcoming Bolton and taking Winterfell but she also thought Stannis was Azor Ahai reborn. Maybe she was close to him, but like you said, realized it was in fact not Stannis. If Jon can be revived because of this then perhaps it's HE who is to overcome the Boltons and take Winterfell. Surely he wouldn't stay where he has no loyalty (but please kill Thorne), and he would be relieved of his watch as well, technically. I see Jon marching south with the help of a wildling army a la Davos' advice to take Winterfell next season. Him revealing himself as Azor Ahai and convincing them of being the one who can protect the realm from the approaching threat, I bet they would get behind him. Also seeing as he and Tormund have a good bond. I sure hope this is true. It would make a lot of fans happy as without Jon it's hard to get behind anybody at this point.

I also didn't buy Kit Harrington's interview on his death. He said he was told his character was "done" and when asked about his short term plans for the future it all sounded very tentative and undecided. And also didn't sound like he was planning to change his appearance or anything right away..

[EldrickOnIce]

Yup. That's the hope, anyways. And here's a thought. She saw Stannis overcoming Bolton and taking Winterfell but she also thought Stannis was Azor Ahai reborn. Maybe she was close to him, but like you said, realized it was in fact not Stannis. If Jon can be revived because of this then perhaps it's HE who is to overcome the Boltons and take Winterfell. Surely he wouldn't stay where he has no loyalty (but please kill Thorne), and he would be relieved of his watch as well, technically. I see Jon marching south with the help of a wildling army a la Davos' advice to take Winterfell next season. Him revealing himself as Azor Ahai and convincing them of being the one who can protect the realm from the approaching threat, I bet they would get behind him. Also seeing as he and Tormund have a good bond. I sure hope this is true. It would make a lot of fans happy as without Jon it's hard to get behind anybody at this point.

I also didn't buy Kit Harrington's interview on his death. He said he was told his character was "done" and when asked about his short term plans for the future it all sounded very tentative and undecided. And also didn't sound like he was planning to change his appearance or anything right away..
From the EW article

One thing actors get excited about after a long time on a show is they can change their appearance. Any plans to cut your hair?

I look like Jim Morrison right now. I don’t know what to do with it. I can cut it if I want, but it’s probably wise to leave long until I know what the next part is. I’ve kind of grown accustomed to it, it would feel weird to change it. [Note: Shortly after this interview was conducted, he cut it.]

[Inglewood Jack]

At first glance it looks like Melisandre is bailing when the going gets tough. I don’t believe is the case at all. I believe in that moment Melisandre had an epiphany.

ding ding ding...if this all turns out, it'll be one of the worst kept pop culture secrets of the next year.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--zHvUsw5N--/1298345462376783019.gif

[sureLoss]

http://i.imgur.com/u6i9jTx.jpg

[nik-]

Dany is now in a position where she may be able to convince the Khal of the group to join her as she continues her journey.

Theon is beginning his redemption, and Sansa is coming into her own as she is realizing how evil the world is and that she can't be the delicate flower that she was in the early seasons.

The Lannisters are undergoing their fall from grace and the arrogance of Cersei will be their undoing. Cersei is not smart and when she is angry she is prone to even more mistakes. King's Landing is set to collapse in on itself with religious zealots.

Jon Snow (whether he is dead or not) and the members on the wall on both sides are going to have some conflict as the real enemy is at their door.

Now things can build towards the second conflict between the white walkers and the race of man. Next season will likely be more like the first where incidents will cause all the pieces to fall into place for the next war.

Dany was in that position three years ago and failed to convince them, so that's not progression. The Lannister's are no different at the end than they are at the midpoint. The build up to the war with the walkers started with Hardhome, and it was awesome. Then they killed off the only two characters on the show who seemed to realize it was an issue.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Dany was in that position three years ago and failed to convince them, so that's not progression. The Lannister's are no different at the end than they are at the midpoint. The build up to the war with the walkers started with Hardhome, and it was awesome. Then they killed off the only two characters on the show who seemed to realize it was an issue.

Don't think Dany is in the same position she was before. That group of Dohraki seemed to be looking for her, no? I don't think a bunch of them ascended on her just for sport. Certainly they saw and have heard about the huge dragons she has now, maybe a group saw her riding it. The way they were circling her leads me to believe they're there, for her specifically. Not to attack.

Could be wrong, but not in the same position IMO.

The Lannisters are f'n shattered IMO. Yeah, Cersei had a nice grin at the end but who is in charge, Kevan Lannister?

Jamie is a shell of his former self, Tyrion is off in Mereen, Cersei see above. Tommen is a scared boy locked away in his room because wifey is locked up and he's too afraid to do anything. Myrcella is DOA. We all wanted to see this happen to this family... it just didn't happen the way we'd like I suppose.

Though I don't know why characters always need progression to move. Sometimes regression is a thing, isn't it? Especially in a long format story. Ups and down, always spinning towards freedom, that sort of thing.

[nik-]

I don't think they were looking for her, I just think they came across her. How would they even know that she A) went to Mereen in the first place and then B) flew way north to be actively looking for her? Drogo died and then they just peaced out on her.

Yes, sometimes regression is a thing, and if Game of Thrones is just a character drama, then it totally works. However, this isn't "moving pieces into place" it's just character work. And it's not even new character work for some of them. Arya, Sansa and Tyrion are in a new situation as characters. The Lannisters? Oh, here's more suffering. Dany? Oh, you're likely a prisoner again or at best back to where you were before Drogo died. Jon's death punches a massive narrative hole in the show. And I don't even want to get started on Stannis.

My hope is that Game of Thrones isn't a character drama and that what was teased from the start, which was a futile power struggle between houses before a real threat presents itself, is the end goal. I saw this episode as moving away from this end goal and sliding back into old habit. After seeing a giant jump forward in Hardhome, it's frustrating. I don't need it to happen immediately, but I mean come on, we're 5 seasons in, do we really need to be treading water?

An honest question for you, where do you rank this season amongst the rest? Is it not easily the worst, even with the epic of episode 8?

[Jbo]

Why do seasons have to be "ranked"? I thought it was up there with some of the best of the entire series. Hell, Hardhome may be my favourite episode ever, and the follow up with Dany was amazing. Some plots did miss...Dorne I'm looking at you, but considering the show runners condensed two books of material, while advancing the white walker plot was a huge win. Season 2 is still my favourite overall, but this season was in no way a letdown

[Larry David]

Yup. That's the hope, anyways. And here's a thought. She saw Stannis overcoming Bolton and taking Winterfell but she also thought Stannis was Azor Ahai reborn. Maybe she was close to him, but like you said, realized it was in fact not Stannis. If Jon can be revived because of this then perhaps it's HE who is to overcome the Boltons and take Winterfell. Surely he wouldn't stay where he has no loyalty (but please kill Thorne), and he would be relieved of his watch as well, technically. I see Jon marching south with the help of a wildling army a la Davos' advice to take Winterfell next season. Him revealing himself as Azor Ahai and convincing them of being the one who can protect the realm from the approaching threat, I bet they would get behind him. Also seeing as he and Tormund have a good bond. I sure hope this is true. It would make a lot of fans happy as without Jon it's hard to get behind anybody at this point.

I also didn't buy Kit Harrington's interview on his death. He said he was told his character was "done" and when asked about his short term plans for the future it all sounded very tentative and undecided. And also didn't sound like he was planning to change his appearance or anything right away..

I hadn't thought of the marching to Winterfell angle to coincide with Melisandre's vision in the flames. Makes sense.

[nik-]

Why do seasons have to be "ranked"? I thought it was up there with some of the best of the entire series. Hell, Hardhome may be my favourite episode ever, and the follow up with Dany was amazing. Some plots did miss...Dorne I'm looking at you, but considering the show runners condensed two books of material, while advancing the white walker plot was a huge win. Season 2 is still my favourite overall, but this season was in no way a letdown

They don't have to be ranked. We also don't have to have a 300 page thread on the show. It's all just discussion and I'm curious.

[Larry David]

They don't have to be ranked. We also don't have to have a 300 page thread on the show. It's all just discussion and I'm curious.

Seems to me that you've been trying very hard to convince everyone that the season "sucked" and baiting others in to arguments when they don't agree with you, so that you can point out all the reasons why it sucks again.

[nik-]

Ok.

I don't think the show sucks, but I do think that they got a lot wrong this season. I thought this season kind of sucked, but a season doesn't make a show.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Seems to me that you've been trying very hard to convince everyone that the season "sucked" and baiting others in to arguments when they don't agree with you, so that you can point out all the reasons why it sucks again.

Exactly... The ranking question speaks to this completely.

I mean, I guess it was the worst of the five but I don't know, it didn't occur to me to rank them. What's the next worse, season 1? Season 4 got a lot of crap last season too but I watched it again and it was great, better then watching it week to week initially.

As for the Dany questions, Nik. I think it's entirely possible that tribe of Dohraki were trying/attempting to track her Dragon. The way they were circling her, coming at her from all angles seems it was more then just happened upon her.

Don't know if it matters if they know she went to Mereen at all. Drogo has been flying everywhere most of the season.

This tribe of Dohraki might not have anything to do with Kahl Drogo and his previous group.

[Jbo]

The show is really meant to be enjoyed as a binge watch. Just flows much better when you watch a bunch of episodes at once.

I remember when Sopranos was in its final season, I really was let down. Nothing could reach the highs of season 2 of that show. Since then I've re watched the entire series in a couple weeks and found a new appreciation and love for the show. I suspect GoT will be even greater on repeated viewings when the whole thing is wrapped up.

[Matata]

Re: EW interview, keep in mind that actors are basically professional liars and resurrected Jon Snow can have shorter hair without breaking continuity.

I was surprised to see the dornish lady (forgot her name) take the poison antidote, I guess she looks forward to being a disgraced traitor and spending the rest of her life in a cell or public execution.

[Flash Walken]

I thought this season was badass.

We saw the end of the Baratheon line if Gendry never comes back.

We got some epic confrontations with the White Walkers.

There was a Giant.

We got to watch Cercei be tortured psychologically.

Bronn was hilarious.

Big dragons.

Tyrion, great as always.

Sir Barristan ####ed some #### up.

Brienne got a Valyrian sword.

The Undead Mountain Kings Guard.

I really only felt dorn was a a bit boring and bad.

Even the Mereen stuff was better than seasons previous.

Pretty good season with a couple of very big twists, and a lot to look forward to next season.

[Jbo]

I thought this season was badass.

We saw the end of the Baratheon line if Gendry never comes back.

We got some epic confrontations with the White Walkers.

There was a Giant.

We got to watch Cercei be tortured psychologically.

Bronn was hilarious.

Big dragons.

Tyrion, great as always.

Sir Barristan ####ed some #### up.

Brienne got a Valyrian sword.

The Undead Mountain Kings Guard.

I really only felt dorn was a a bit boring and bad.

Even the Mereen stuff was better than seasons previous.

Pretty good season with a couple of very big twists, and a lot to look forward to next season.

Couldn't agree more. Tyrion getting out of the box only to puke and rally was his best scene of the season.

Edit: or his scene with Dany when we talks about being the greatest Lannister killer of his time

[MrMastodonFarm]

Big progression of Beards this season. Tyrion rocking a thick one, Stannis with the grizzled war beard, just gorgeous Beards.

[Igottago]

Ok.

I don't think the show sucks, but I do think that they got a lot wrong this season. I thought this season kind of sucked, but a season doesn't make a show.

I agree with you. The season was mediocre at best. I actually started to roll my eyes at how often they are trying to hit you over the head with shocking moments now, they have pretty much lost their impact.

The best executed story line was probably Cersi's downfall, because you were wondering if she'd somehow get away with it. Her fall from grace in the finale was pretty epic.

So much of the rest of the stories just kind of became boring to watch. Even the Ramsey/Sansa/Reek ordeal went from feeling horrified for her, to "whatever" by the end. They dragged some plot lines on ridiculously long.

The Dorne parts were almost laughable at times, and not in a good way.

Highlight by a country mile was the battle with the white walkers.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Dany? Oh, you're likely a prisoner again or at best back to where you were before Drogo died.

Daenerys was a naive girl who thought that when the Targaryens landed on Westeros the smallfolk would pick up their weapons and display the dragon sigil for their rightful king. She thought that she could rule an ancient city with little bloodshed despite destroying its traditions and customs. She was almost killed for her foolishness.

Daenerys story has always been about her getting to Westeros, first as a princess and then a queen. Now, I believe, it will be as a conquer. She's going to destroy that wheel and will be every bit as ruthless as Aegon was.

[nik-]

Big progression of Beards this season. Tyrion rocking a thick one, Stannis with the grizzled war beard, just gorgeous Beards.

http://theathleticnerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/tyrion-lannister-peter-dinklage-e1333381745484.jpg

http://winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Season-5-Trailer-Tyrion-drinking.gif

[Yamer]

Re: EW interview, keep in mind that actors are basically professional liars and resurrected Jon Snow can have shorter hair without breaking continuity.

I was surprised to see the dornish lady (forgot her name) take the poison antidote, I guess she looks forward to being a disgraced traitor and spending the rest of her life in a cell or public execution.

Ellaria Sand. Her total goal in the show seems to be avenging Elia and Oberyn, and she is willing to go to war to do so. I would guess that she will now plot with the Sand Snakes to assassinate Prince Doran and lead Dorne to war against the Lannisters. It won't be hard to rally the Dornish against them.

It's one good way to avoid punishment, but she's going to have to go through Areo Hotah to do it, and that's a big mutha with an even bigger axe.

[Winsor_Pilates]

My hope is that Game of Thrones isn't a character drama and that what was teased from the start, which was a futile power struggle between houses before a real threat presents itself, is the end goal. I saw this episode as moving away from this end goal and sliding back into old habit. After seeing a giant jump forward in Hardhome, it's frustrating. I don't need it to happen immediately, but I mean come on, we're 5 seasons in, do we really need to be treading water?

But your frustration seems based on a lot of assumptions about how season 6 and thereon is going to go.
Unless you know something the rest of us don't, we have no way of knowing how these deaths impact the "end goal".

If we get 2-3 episodes into season 6 and it indeed plays out as another shuffle of who's in power and nothing more, then I'll completely agree with you. But with only 2-3 seasons left, I highly doubt that is the case.

[MrMastodonFarm]

But your frustration seems based on a lot of assumptions about how season 6 and thereon is going to go.
Unless you know something the rest of us don't, we have no way of knowing how these deaths impact the "end goal".



Honesty, I think you nailed it. Not to take any shots or get too psychological here but I've noticed with nik-'s posts that if things don't go the way he thought or expected, he doesn't like it. From Game of Thrones to nhl draft picks.

Could be totally wrong, but just what I've seen.

[nik-]

Honesty, I think you nailed it. Not to take any shots or get too psychological here but I've noticed with nik-'s posts that if things don't go the way he thought or expected, he doesn't like it. From Game of Thrones to nhl draft picks.

Could be totally wrong, but just what I've seen.

You're totally wrong, but I'm tired of arguing about it. I obviously lack the capacity to present my concerns so people understand them. So #### it.

[blankall]

Don't think Dany is in the same position she was before. That group of Dohraki seemed to be looking for her, no? I don't think a bunch of them ascended on her just for sport. Certainly they saw and have heard about the huge dragons she has now, maybe a group saw her riding it. The way they were circling her leads me to believe they're there, for her specifically. Not to attack.



I'd agree. They seem like a pretty fickle and superstitious bunch. Drogo being unable to ride a horse made him appear to be very weak to the Dothraki. Perhaps riding a dragon makes you look very strong, and the Dothraki have now returned to Dany's service.

[Azure]

Well I was not expecting that at all.

[neo45]

I think complaints about this season are totally justified. Most of the season was good but there were parts that were very low quality in ways that we haven't seen in past seasons. I remember how excited I was watching this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH2ri8RhSnw

and now I realize that none of those new characters were remotely interesting or well written for this season, High Sparrow being the only slight exception. This was almost a rebuilding season for the show

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Ellaria Sand. Her total goal in the show seems to be avenging Elia and Oberyn, and she is willing to go to war to do so. I would guess that she will now plot with the Sand Snakes to assassinate Prince Doran and lead Dorne to war against the Lannisters. It won't be hard to rally the Dornish against them.

It's one good way to avoid punishment, but she's going to have to go through Areo Hotah to do it, and that's a big mutha with an even bigger axe.

Uh, I doubt it. Even if she manages to kill Doran, power would then move to his son Trystane. Since she was the one to poison his bride to be and true love, then I seriously doubt he would be moved to start a war with the Lannisters. He'd be more likely to execute her and everyone associated with her.

[Azure]

So the way the series ended makes me think Jon isn't dead.

It has been a while since I've been so invested in a character as I was with Jon. I might have actually been complaining about screen time being given to the other stories because his story was so great. And then they go and kill him.

Unreal.

[Matata]

Ellaria Sand. Her total goal in the show seems to be avenging Elia and Oberyn, and she is willing to go to war to do so. I would guess that she will now plot with the Sand Snakes to assassinate Prince Doran and lead Dorne to war against the Lannisters. It won't be hard to rally the Dornish against them.

It's one good way to avoid punishment, but she's going to have to go through Areo Hotah to do it, and that's a big mutha with an even bigger axe.

Myrcella's ship would return to port immediately and it's going to be obvious to everyone who killed her. Ellaria is a ####### who's only privileges are those allowed to her by the Martell family. She's got less than an hour to do something before the shackles get her.

[Hemi-Cuda]

WEQnwF4yoWI

[Yamer]

Uh, I doubt it. Even if she manages to kill Doran, power would then move to his son Trystane. Since she was the one to poison his bride to be and true love, then I seriously doubt he would be moved to start a war with the Lannisters. He'd be more likely to execute her and everyone associated with her.

Well, we've all seen the competency of boy kings thus far.

Although it hasn't been executed well in the show, it appears as though we are being conditioned to somehow see how fierce and conniving Ellaria is, and by extension how fiercely loyal the Sand Snakes are to her and Oberyn.

I don't doubt that they could assassinate both Doran and Trystane should they wish it. Again, they haven't shown it well, but there is a long conflicting interest between the Lannisters and the Dornish, and I would say they could rally a following fairly easily should it be needed. It most likely isn't merely the 4 of them.

Just speculation on what the showrunners have been trying to convey about these characters. They won't be happy with simply killing a princess. They want to take out the entire Lannister bloodline.

Myrcella's ship would return to port immediately and it's going to be obvious to everyone who killed her. Ellaria is a ####### who's only privileges are those allowed to her by the Martell family. She's got less than an hour to do something before the shackles get her.

She will also probably be more aggressive with her plot now that she has taken the initial step in killing Myrcella. The proverbial #### can go bad and quickly, though the more realistic outcome would be that the ship returns to port, they put Ellaria on trial and detain/imprison the Sand Snakes, and try to restore the peace with King's Landing.

Then again, how open do you think Cersei and Jaime will be to continuing an alliance with a family that harbored Myrcella's assassin?

[Burninator]

Myrcella's ship would return to port immediately and it's going to be obvious to everyone who killed her. Ellaria is a ####### who's only privileges are those allowed to her by the Martell family. She's got less than an hour to do something before the shackles get her.I wouldn't be so sure. They could continue to Kingslanding with the Martell heir as a prisoner.

[Komskies]

I wouldn't be so sure. They could continue to Kingslanding with the Martell heir as a prisoner.

Maybe all Dornish keep the antidote on their person and Trystane can cure her.

[Matata]

Good points all, Myrcella isn't dead until she's dead.

Heads up, Telltale Game's GoT series is on sale for 50% off on steam.

[blankall]

WEQnwF4yoWI

Lost it with the "I accept your surrender" line.

[jammies]

Those of you saying the characters are neither entirely good or evil are missing out on the characters that actually are entirely evil: Ramsay, the Mountain, Ser Trent and Ser Baros, Vargo Hoat and all of his "Brave Companions" and probably more I'm forgetting. Who is a truly good person? Ser Barristan Selmy, maybe, but even he served the Mad King in his youth, or so I seem to recall. Samwell Tarly is maybe another, although he is certainly a coward and an oathbreaker.

That's the one big complaint I have about the show, that the only absolutes that are shown are dark ones. Yes, people are generally flawed, but the same terrible events that produce monsters also produce heroes. There doesn't have to be a happy ending, but is it too much to ask for a few more random acts of happiness along the way?

[blankall]

Those of you saying the characters are neither entirely good or evil are missing out on the characters that actually are entirely evil: Ramsay, the Mountain, Ser Trent and Ser Baros, Vargo Hoat and all of his "Brave Companions" and probably more I'm forgetting. Who is a truly good person? Ser Barristan Selmy, maybe, but even he served the Mad King in his youth, or so I seem to recall. Samwell Tarly is maybe another, although he is certainly a coward and an oathbreaker.

That's the one big complaint I have about the show, that the only absolutes that are shown are dark ones. Yes, people are generally flawed, but the same terrible events that produce monsters also produce heroes. There doesn't have to be a happy ending, but is it too much to ask for a few more random acts of happiness along the way?

Tough decisions are a running theme in the show. Daenarys is the best example. She tries to be totally good, but it's just not possible to do so and rule a fractured medieval style kingdom.

[Flash Walken]

Those of you saying the characters are neither entirely good or evil are missing out on the characters that actually are entirely evil: Ramsay, the Mountain, Ser Trent and Ser Baros, Vargo Hoat and all of his "Brave Companions" and probably more I'm forgetting. Who is a truly good person? Ser Barristan Selmy, maybe, but even he served the Mad King in his youth, or so I seem to recall. Samwell Tarly is maybe another, although he is certainly a coward and an oathbreaker.

That's the one big complaint I have about the show, that the only absolutes that are shown are dark ones. Yes, people are generally flawed, but the same terrible events that produce monsters also produce heroes. There doesn't have to be a happy ending, but is it too much to ask for a few more random acts of happiness along the way?
Has Tyrion done anything bad?

Sure, he's crass, but other than shooting his father on the ####ter, isn't he pretty much a 'good' character?

Jon Snow is objectively good.

Same with Ned, but he's dead of course.

Sir Davos?

Lots of good characters.

[rbochan]

Those of you saying the characters are neither entirely good or evil are missing out on the characters that actually are entirely evil: Ramsay, the Mountain, Ser Trent and Ser Baros, Vargo Hoat and all of his "Brave Companions" and probably more I'm forgetting. Who is a truly good person? ...

https://24.media.tumblr.com/9880673d87f5c24290884c2a98ea1ffc/tumblr_n4q34xqIEo1qz72sno1_500.gif

[habernac]

Wow, what a ride. I've watched everything from season one until now, read all 307 pages of this thread. How in the hell am I going to wait until next year to see the next season when I've been knocking off two or three episodes per night for the last few weeks? Amazing show, rips out your heart just as you get a little bit of hope for a character or storyline.

Got all the way to Monday before the internet spoiled the Jon Snow ending for me. Pretty good I'd say. Before I started watching, I'd heard about the Red Wedding and assumed it was Joffrey's.

[Inglewood Jack]

https://24.media.tumblr.com/9880673d87f5c24290884c2a98ea1ffc/tumblr_n4q34xqIEo1qz72sno1_500.gif

But of course, since King's Landing has the good kitty, they just had to go and give Dorne the bad p****

[Yeah_Baby]

Someone report Jammies! He mentioned book characters yet to appear on the show!

[rubecube]

Someone report Jammies! He mentioned book characters yet to appear on the show!

Shame! Shame! Shame!

[troutman]

Those of you saying the characters are neither entirely good or evil are missing out on the characters that actually are entirely evil: Ramsay, the Mountain, Ser Trent and Ser Baros, Vargo Hoat and all of his "Brave Companions" and probably more I'm forgetting. Who is a truly good person? Ser Barristan Selmy, maybe, but even he served the Mad King in his youth, or so I seem to recall. Samwell Tarly is maybe another, although he is certainly a coward and an oathbreaker.

That's the one big complaint I have about the show, that the only absolutes that are shown are dark ones. Yes, people are generally flawed, but the same terrible events that produce monsters also produce heroes. There doesn't have to be a happy ending, but is it too much to ask for a few more random acts of happiness along the way?

The D&D Alignments for GOT characters. Agree?

http://nerdist.com/game-of-thrones-characters-dd-alignments/

Tyrion Lannister – Neutral
Daenerys Targaryen – Neutral Good
Jon Snow – Chaotic Good
Cersei Lannister – Neutral Evil
Brienne of Tarth – Lawful Good
Arya Stark – Lawful Neutral
Joffrey Baratheon – Chaotic Evil

http://crazyeddiethemotie.blogspot.ca/2014/04/game-of-thrones-d-character-alignment.html

https://muleabides.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/alignment.jpg

[Ashartus]

I don't buy Jon as chaotic - I think he's more neutral good. I'd classify Arya as true neutral.

[jammies]

Has Tyrion done anything bad?

Jon Snow is objectively good.

Same with Ned, but he's dead of course.

Sir Davos?

Lots of good characters.

Tyrion is a drunk who frequents whorehouses and was involved in trying to hunt down Dany and kill her, And he did murder his father.

Jon Snow is another oathbreaker, which, although rather quaint to modern tastes, is a pretty big deal in a feudal society. He doesn't get the Caesar treatment because he is disliked, he gets it because he goes against everything the Night's Watch stands for and which he swore to uphold. He's definitely not good in the same sense that Ramsay is evil, which is what I'm getting at.

Ned was honourable but I don't think that is the same as good. He and Stannis are very similar characters, and nobody thinks Stannis is good. Ned just never was placed into the same situations as Stannis.

Ser Davos was a smuggler and criminal before Stannis elevated him. Not sure how that is unqualified benevolence either.

That being said, Maester Aemon is unreservedly good, even going so far as to renounce his family and power. So I guess he is the one counter-example, but he is a pretty bit player and for all we know he secretly screwed goats or something, which will be revealed in a Sam flashback as he is raped by a gang of other students in the Citadel.

Someone report Jammies! He mentioned book characters yet to appear on the show!

Who isn't in the show? Vargo Hoat? I thought he was in season two when Arya and her pals get captured and are serving in the castle. It's all so long ago now I conflate the books with the show. Which is why I only figured it's safe now to come in here to comment.

[Bobblehead]

You can't dismiss your one good example of good by saying "but he is a pretty bit player and for all we know he secretly screwed goats or something" but still laud Hoat as evil when he was an even smaller bit player. He may have some redeeming qualities that are just never part of the story.

So far I think Ramsay is the only one we have seen enough of to make a "no redeeming qualities" assumption. Even the Ser Meryn and Ser Trent are on the Kingsguard, so I would expect that at some point in their history they have done enough service to get appointed to that prestigious position.

[jammies]

You can't dismiss your one good example of good by saying "but he is a pretty bit player and for all we know he secretly screwed goats or something" but still laud Hoat as evil when he was an even smaller bit player.

I can't? I'm pretty sure I just did!

[Sliver]

Jon Snow is another oathbreaker, which, although rather quaint to modern tastes, is a pretty big deal in a feudal society. He doesn't get the Caesar treatment because he is disliked, he gets it because he goes against everything the Night's Watch stands for and which he swore to uphold. He's definitely not good in the same sense that Ramsay is evil, which is what I'm getting at.


Oath of the Night's Watch:
"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."

Which part does he break? He banged that redhead because he was spying, right? Didn't Mormont or whatever send him on that mission or did I completely confuse things? I'd say he is absolutely keeping his oath to recruit wildlings - his job is to guard the realms of men and he's doing that by getting their help against the white walkers. IDK, though, I just kind of enjoy each episode without necessarily remembering how everything ties together. But I am unclear on what component of his oath you think he broke.

[Oling_Roachinen]

The Night's watch conspirators believe Jon broke his oaths because he opened the gates to the Wildlings who had been their enemies.

But the oath, as Jon pointed out, is to protect the realms of men and the Wildlings are men. They had forgotten their real enemy. I don't think we can say that show Jon was an oathbreaker knowing what he know of him.

Unless we're talking about that time he ran away for like 5 minutes and the other Night's watch brought him back.

[GreenLantern]

Or when he slept with Ygritte, that is definitely breaking an oath.. but an oath worth breaking!!! Amirite???

[MrMastodonFarm]

Which part does he break? He banged that redhead because he was spying, right? Didn't Mormont or whatever send him on that mission or did I completely confuse things? I'd say he is absolutely keeping his oath to recruit wildlings - his job is to guard the realms of men and he's doing that by getting their help against the white walkers. IDK, though, I just kind of enjoy each episode without necessarily remembering how everything ties together. But I am unclear on what component of his oath you think he broke.

When he banged Ygritte in that pool he wasn't doing it for The Nights Watch and the Realms of men, he was doing it for tiny Jon Snuuuwww.

I wonder if he yelled out Winter is Coming?

[Yeah_Baby]

Tyrion is a drunk who frequents whorehouses and was involved in trying to hunt down Dany and kill her, And he did murder his father.



Jon Snow is another oathbreaker, which, although rather quaint to modern tastes, is a pretty big deal in a feudal society. He doesn't get the Caesar treatment because he is disliked, he gets it because he goes against everything the Night's Watch stands for and which he swore to uphold. He's definitely not good in the same sense that Ramsay is evil, which is what I'm getting at.



Ned was honourable but I don't think that is the same as good. He and Stannis are very similar characters, and nobody thinks Stannis is good. Ned just never was placed into the same situations as Stannis.



Ser Davos was a smuggler and criminal before Stannis elevated him. Not sure how that is unqualified benevolence either.



That being said, Maester Aemon is unreservedly good, even going so far as to renounce his family and power. So I guess he is the one counter-example, but he is a pretty bit player and for all we know he secretly screwed goats or something, which will be revealed in a Sam flashback as he is raped by a gang of other students in the Citadel.







Who isn't in the show? Vargo Hoat? I thought he was in season two when Arya and her pals get captured and are serving in the castle. It's all so long ago now I conflate the books with the show. Which is why I only figured it's safe now to come in here to comment.


Nope. I'm pretty sure the Brave Companions haven't been on the show. But I could be wrong. It doesn't really matter.

I was being cheeky anyways.

[jammies]

Implicit in having no wife and fathering no children is no sexy redheads. Further, while you can argue over "guarding the realms of men", traditionally that is far more applicable to the wildlings being the ones from whom the realms are protected, and Jon's interpretation is a heretical one at best. He also allows Sam to live in what is pretty well a marriage, despite being the Lord Commander who is supposed to put the kibosh on such milksop ways.

I really like Jon's character, btw, but he's just not good in the sense that some characters are evil; his goodness is a struggle, while these others are not only comfortable in their evil but positively delight in it. Focusing on who is good or evil isn't the point, the point is that there's Evil with a capital E, but no Good with a capital G opposing it. The Lord of Light insists on human sacrifice, the Many-Faced God has assassin/priests, the Seven are apparently good with either fanatic puritans or corrupt lechers running their church; anyone who has access to power inevitably has to murder to keep it; anyone innocent gets raped or killed or brutalized.

Maybe that's what the story demands, but I don't think so. I do really like the show, but on binge watching it I get the impression that the writing is confusing dark and cruel with deep and meaningful.

[Sliver]

Implicit in having no wife and fathering no children is no sexy redheads. Further, while you can argue over "guarding the realms of men", traditionally that is far more applicable to the wildlings being the ones from whom the realms are protected, and Jon's interpretation is a heretical one at best. He also allows Sam to live in what is pretty well a marriage, despite being the Lord Commander who is supposed to put the kibosh on such milksop ways.

I really like Jon's character, btw, but he's just not good in the sense that some characters are evil; his goodness is a struggle, while these others are not only comfortable in their evil but positively delight in it. Focusing on who is good or evil isn't the point, the point is that there's Evil with a capital E, but no Good with a capital G opposing it. The Lord of Light insists on human sacrifice, the Many-Faced God has assassin/priests, the Seven are apparently good with either fanatic puritans or corrupt lechers running their church; anyone who has access to power inevitably has to murder to keep it; anyone innocent gets raped or killed or brutalized.

Maybe that's what the story demands, but I don't think so. I do really like the show, but on binge watching it I get the impression that the writing is confusing dark and cruel with deep and meaningful.

See, but if you're looking for a Good character, you have it in John. Maybe he is breaking his oath, but he is doing it for Good reasons. That's what you wanted, jammies. Allow yourself to enjoy it.

[Yeah_Baby]

Life is nasty, brutish, and short-David Benioff and DB Weiss.

They're the ones who said that right?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Hey, hey hey hey. Enough you guys and skirting close to the edge with your book talk.

[Yeah_Baby]

Hey, hey hey hey. Enough you guys and skirting close to the edge with your book talk.


Every time someone mentions the word book, a Joffrey takes the wings off an angel.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Every time someone mentions the word book, a Joffrey takes the wings off an angel.

Odds are he was doing that anyways

[Oling_Roachinen]

When he banged Ygritte in that pool he wasn't doing it for The Nights Watch and the Realms of men, he was doing it for tiny Jon Snuuuwww.

No way. Wildling who probably hadn't bathed in months. There's a reason she hadn't had that done to her before, because not even a Wildling was that nasty. He went above and beyond his duties as a sworn brother in that cave.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Rose Leslie :wub:

[corporatejay]

When he banged Ygritte in that pool he wasn't doing it for The Nights Watch and the Realms of men, he was doing it for tiny Jon Snuuuwww.

I wonder if he yelled out Winter is Coming?


Probably more like 'the Snow is coming' amirite?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Probably more like 'the Snow is coming' amirite?

How dare you rejig my joke and make it worse. How dare you sir.

[Yeah_Baby]

How dare you rejig my joke and make it worse. How dare you sir.


Similar too but legally distinct from.

[rubecube]

No way. Wildling who probably hadn't bathed in months. There's a reason she hadn't had that done to her before, because not even a Wildling was that nasty. He went above and beyond his duties as a sworn brother in that cave.

Glad someone else brought up the "camping" issue.

[Larry David]

When he banged Ygritte in that pool he wasn't doing it for The Nights Watch and the Realms of men, he was doing it for tiny Jon Snuuuwww.

I wonder if he yelled out Winter is Coming?

https://tyrionlannister.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/ygritte-snowsbane-meme-game-of-thrones.png

[Yamer]

Lena Headey used a body double. Of course she did...

Stunt ####?

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/18/game-thrones-lena-headey-nude-double-van-cleave

The body double who performed Game of Thrones’ Walk of Shame nude for three days is breaking her silence on enacting the stunning sequence.

Actress Rebecca Van Cleave (photo below) worked closely with star Lena Headey on the gripping penance walk in Sunday’s season 5 finale. While filming the Walk in Dubrovnik last October, Van Cleave performed nude while Headey wore a simple beige shift. The show’s visual effects team then merged the performances together—combining Headey’s progression of facial emotions during Cersei’s punishing hike to the Red Keep and Van Cleave’s physical movement echoing Headey’s body language in order to create the seamless illusion that Headey was completely bare for the sequence.

And apparently, fans are pissed off.

The evil Queen was met with a barrage of foul-mouthed abuse while being decorated with a collection of bodily fluids as she made her way through the narrow streets of King's Landing.

But many viewers were less concerned with her plea of penance as they were with Lena Headey's body. Audiences swiftly turned to Twitter to point out the actress' body was not that walking through the streets of King's Landing, but instead she'd used a double.

Some hardcore devotees even went as far to compare Heady's body double to her topless scenes from 2007's fantasy epic 300, just to confirm that the figure in question was definitely not Headey's.

...

One user wrote: "I don't feel sorry for her now RT @mashable: Cersea Lannister used a body double for her naked walk o shame in last night's Game of Thrones", while another added: "Please get a better body double next time."

http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/tv-radio/584771/Game-of-Thrones-Lena-Headey-Cersai-Lannister-CGI-body-double-season-5-finale

[FlamesAddiction]

Ha ha... why would people be mad over that? Like it is their right as a fan of the show to see Lena Headley naked?

[Bobblehead]

They don't feel sorry for a fictional character because the real actress had special effects applied?

Do those fan know that Sean Bean didn't actually have his head cut off?

[Caged Great]

they don't feel sorry for a fictional character because the real actress had special effects applied?

do those fan know that sean bean didn't actually have his head cut off?

this is an outrage!!!

[Bigtime]

Was reading an article the other day on the finale, and it was briefly pointed out that Headey has A LOT of tattoos on her body, so that may have been a contributing factor too.

But really who cares?

[corporatejay]

Umm, she was pregnant when they filmed it....that's why they used a body double.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3130276/Pregnant-Lena-Headey-s-nude-body-double-Game-Thrones-revealed.html

[opendoor]

Not that it matters at all, but they filmed that scene 8 months ago and she's still pregnant, so I doubt that was the reason.

[troutman]

Umm, she was pregnant when they filmed it...

Does she have a brother?

[corporatejay]

Not that it matters at all, but they filmed that scene 8 months ago and she's still pregnant, so I doubt that was the reason.


Are you sure, Sepinwall says otherwise.


(**) Headey was far enough along in her pregnancy when this episode was shot that there was a lot of digital manipulation — as with scenes where Dany interacts with Drogon, some of it was more effective than others — to place her head on another woman's naked body. If there's an Emmy category for Outstanding Acting From the Neck Up, though, she's a lock, and her facial expressions throughout that sequence were so powerful that she could well win the real trophy.


Read more at http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/season-finale-review-game-of-thrones-mothers-mercy-walk-of-shame#c4JlBUBCHsbOUzlx.99

[speede5]

This was news before the season even started, there were pics leaked from the set when they filmed that scene and they talked about how she used a body double. Big whoop.

[nik-]

This was news before the season even started, there were pics leaked from the set when they filmed that scene and they talked about how she used a body double. Big whoop.

Some people have probably been waiting 5 years to see Lena Headey nude and are just furious that they got "cheated".

owned

[Yeah_Baby]

Some people have probably been waiting 5 years to see Lena Headey nude and are just furious that they got "cheated".



owned


Which is messed up, because there is nothing sexual about the nudity in that scene.

[speede5]

Which is messed up, because there is nothing sexual about the nudity in that scene.

Porn has been making big money degrading women, covered in body fluids, for some time.

[opendoor]

Are you sure, Sepinwall says otherwise.


(**) Headey was far enough along in her pregnancy when this episode was shot that there was a lot of digital manipulation — as with scenes where Dany interacts with Drogon, some of it was more effective than others — to place her head on another woman's naked body. If there's an Emmy category for Outstanding Acting From the Neck Up, though, she's a lock, and her facial expressions throughout that sequence were so powerful that she could well win the real trophy.


Read more at http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/season-finale-review-game-of-thrones-mothers-mercy-walk-of-shame#c4JlBUBCHsbOUzlx.99

Well I don't know for sure, but given that the scene was apparently shot in October and she isn't due until July that explanation doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Yeah_Baby]

Porn has been making big money degrading women, covered in body fluids, for some time.


Well if someone was aroused watching Cersei's match last week, I'd agree they deviate from the societal norms.

But I take your point.

[dammage79]

Some people have probably been waiting 5 years to see Lena Headey nude and are just furious that they got "cheated".

owned

They could just go watch 300 while they were waiting for her to be nude in GoT.

[MickMcGeough]

Deleted this episodes and the entire season without hestitation.
They have no problem killing off fan favorite characters or screwing with the progress of their story lines.
But Martin and the other writers are insistent that the vile main character continue on.
Wow Queen whore gets publicly shamed.
G.O.T where decent characters are either murdered, tortured or victimized.
People do not invest their spare to time to follow a show for 5 seasons to be angry.
I could be an Oilers fan if i wanted to deliberately embrace frustration.
Season 6 nope G.O.T has no balance with their direction. I'm done.

Ok, thanks for letting us know. Later.

[cracher]

No way. Wildling who probably hadn't bathed in months. There's a reason she hadn't had that done to her before, because not even a Wildling was that nasty. He went above and beyond his duties as a sworn brother in that cave.

The evidence actually points to the wildlings have access to spas. If you rewatch the cave scene, you will see some immaculate grooming.

and, yes, after I hit the the "submit reply" button, I will proceed to clear my browser history.

[FlamesAddiction]

Not to kill some of the magic...

rct8l4_ezJs

[sureLoss]

http://i.imgur.com/utYoHh4.jpg

[ClubFlames]

XEa-6Vyw-zc

[Looch City]

Ygritte looks 12yo in the last scene haha

[MrMastodonFarm]

Comic Con 2015 Panel

SJS5bDJUUdw

[MrMastodonFarm]

Episode 5 of the Telltale game to be released tomorrow.

[Jbo]

Can't wait!

[Daradon]

Episode 5 of the Telltale game to be released tomorrow.

Is there way to purchase the past episodes in a package? Steam I guess? I never really use that.

[Caged Great]

You buy the game, you get all the episodes. They just release the next episode when they have it done.

[Daradon]

You buy the game, you get all the episodes. They just release the next episode when they have it done.

Does that mean people who got into it earlier paid less? Or have they kept it the same price the whole time. I thought it was only like 20 bucks? Hard to imagine you get five episodes for 20 bucks.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Does that mean people who got into it earlier paid less? Or have they kept it the same price the whole time. I thought it was only like 20 bucks? Hard to imagine you get five episodes for 20 bucks.

Right now the entire season is 50% off on Steam.

And yes, that's basically how the Telltale games works about 5 bucks an episode regular price.

[Finger Cookin]

Ian McShane cast for Season 6 (http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/01/game-thrones-ian-mcshane)

No role mentioned by the production team. Speculate away! One of the Kingsguard? Some weirdo from Essos? Someone completely new?

Sorry, edited for book characters mentioned unintentionally.

[Yamer]

Ian McShane cast for Season 6 (http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/01/game-thrones-ian-mcshane)

No role mentioned by the production team. Speculate away! One of the Kingsguard? Some weirdo from Essos? Someone completely new?

Sorry, edited for book characters mentioned unintentionally.

Freaking, awesome.

[sureLoss]

So with HBO saying they are willing to do 8 seasons + prequel series if the current GOT producers sign on, there is hope for a series focused on Robert's rebellion or perhaps on the how the Targaryans first established their dynasty?

[Street Pharmacist]

Robert's rebellion would be the most interesting as we know most of the characters

[dammage79]

Ooooh, having Ian McShane is amazing. Really ties a room together ya know?

Hopefully he can bring a little bit of old Al Swearengen to the show.

[Yamer]

Martin wrote another series of books called the Tales of Dunk and Egg (?) series, which focuses on Ser Duncan the Tall and King Aegon the Unlikely (Dany's great grandfather). So that might be a possible focus.

Even so, I think I would be most interested in seeing the reign of King Aerys, the lead-up of Robert's Rebellion, and some of the aftermath.

[sureLoss]

The major problem with Robert's Rebellion focused series is that everyone will pretty much know the fate of all the major characters as a lot of it has been explained in the TV show. Not knowing what is going to happen to the characters is half the fun of GOT, IMO.

[Finger Cookin]

No more Targaryens for me. I don't think I'd watch a prequel series set in that time frame.

[Street Pharmacist]

The major problem with Robert's Rebellion focused series is that everyone will pretty much know the fate of all the major characters as a lot of it has been explained in the TV show. Not knowing what is going to happen to the characters is half the fun of GOT, IMO.
Maybe the make plot lines are known, but lots of other things can happen. People love historical dramas. One of the most successful movies if all time had the audience knowingly watch a ship sink.

[d_phaneuf]

The major problem with Robert's Rebellion focused series is that everyone will pretty much know the fate of all the major characters as a lot of it has been explained in the TV show. Not knowing what is going to happen to the characters is half the fun of GOT, IMO.

Disagree, book readers have known for most of the series so far and it hasn't taken away

Plus there's lot of stuff that the show hasn't touched on from Robert's Rebellion (and who knows if it will) so well it will be obvious that Robert, Ned etc. don't die. There can still be plenty of surprises

[Daradon]

The major problem with Robert's Rebellion focused series is that everyone will pretty much know the fate of all the major characters as a lot of it has been explained in the TV show. Not knowing what is going to happen to the characters is half the fun of GOT, IMO.

Yeah, I've really begun to despise prequels for this exact reason. It was an interesting enough idea 20 years ago when no one was doing it, but I just don't find prequels interesting anymore cause I know how it ends.

Course, maybe the storytelling is just lacking in so many of them now. I think often they're a lazy way to cash in on the popularity of a franchise. Half the plot is already written. Maybe a GoT prequel would be better. Though, like you said, one of the best things about GoT (if not THE BEST) is the fact that it's so hard to predict. You'd lose most of that.

[sureLoss]

Disagree, book readers have known for most of the series so far and it hasn't taken away

Plus there's lot of stuff that the show hasn't touched on from Robert's Rebellion (and who knows if it will) so well it will be obvious that Robert, Ned etc. don't die. There can still be plenty of surprises

I would suggest the majority of the viewers of the TV show are not book readers. Knowing things like Jamie Lannister will eventually kill the mad king, is akin to someone spoiling that Ed Stark will get his head chopped off. It just won't have the same impact. Major plot points in Robert's Rebellion have pretty much been spoiled.

[Caged Great]

Anyone know why an episode of the telltale games thing won't load? I have the first 4 and the 5th one still says coming soon.

[Finger Cookin]

Anyone know why an episode of the telltale games thing won't load? I have the first 4 and the 5th one still says coming soon.

https://www.telltalegames.com/support/discussion/98165/unable-to-download-episode-5-on-ipad

"@Alienangie My apologies, if you are unable to download any episodes for the PC Telltale Games version of the game, please first make sure that you have downloaded and installed the latest Updated Critical PC/Mac Patch available for the game. After it has been installed, then start the game again, and you should be able to start the game successfully then download the new episode and play the game.

If you still experience any issues, you may still have older Archive files on your computer that need to be cleared out. To do this, please first uninstall the game from your computer (this will not harm your save files). Then open the following directory on your computer:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Telltale Games\Game of Thrones\

Inside there, you should find an 'Archives' folder. Please delete this, then download a New installer from our website. This installer has been updated, and will add the new files you need. After you have reinstalled the game using that new installer, start it while connected to the internet, and you should be able to download and install both Episodes 4 and 5 from in-game. Again, my apologies for any difficulties this causes, and I hope this allows you to play!"

[pseudoreality]

So with HBO saying they are willing to do 8 seasons + prequel series if the current GOT producers sign on, there is hope for a series focused on Robert's rebellion or perhaps on the how the Targaryans first established their dynasty?
Either do the 100 years ago Dance of the Dragons or go back way further, like Bran the Builder time.

[Finger Cookin]

It's hard to discuss prequels in the Game of Thrones thread because most of the material that could be in a prequel series is book material. *self destructs* Although I guess there were those extra features from the home releases...

[Huntingwhale]

After letting the season spool up for 5 season, I finally took the plunge last month and binge watched it from start to end.

Great show. Typical HBO in the sense that characters are killed off left right and center without warning. Most shocking episode for me was the Red Wedding. I was flying to London a couple weeks ago with my cousin and we watched it on my phone. He's seen all the episodes so I had no idea of what was to come. Was expecting a happy reunion and instead all that stuff went down. Was pretty traumatised for the rest of the flight.

I'm also a huge fan of Cercei. Been a mega-fan of Lena Headey since her Terminator series. Kind of weird to see her as a bad guy in the show when she was such a badass in Terminator.

I thought the ending for season 5 was pretty well done. The epic fight scene between the WW and the Wildling camp was my favorite episode of the season. I didn't find the season to be that weak as others have said. Maybe because I was able to binge watch it all. I'm so glad I didn't start watching the show at the start when it was released. Having to wait this long would have sucked.

So finally I can say my bit in this thread after having never opened it before. I also find it amusing how some posters are all riled up about the main characters deaths and how unsatisfying their endings were (Stannis in particular). It's almost like they have never watched an HBO drama before...

Can't wait for season 6!

[Daradon]

Even though I half expected the red wedding, the pure violence of it shocked me. The writers and director did a good job of disarming you too throughout the episode. Edmure making faces at his possible brides, Frey being a pervy dick, Dany wins a big victory, Edmure actually gets a pretty bride. All carefully planned to take you from bad to good so you don't expect what's coming next.

I knew Robb's bride and baby would die for sure. I was thinking, that Frey was thinking, you take my bride away, I'll take yours! I was 50/50 on Robb himself. Never expected Cat to get it. Thought maybe she'd save the day. My heart broke.

[FlameOn]

I am still not convinced Stannis is dead. After how bloody and graphic the other deaths in the show have been I don't believe that the show writers wouldn't capitalize on the death of a major character in the same way with Stannis.

[Daradon]

I am still not convinced Stannis is dead. After how bloody and graphic the other deaths in the show have been I don't believe that the show writers wouldn't capitalize on the death of a major character in the same way with Stannis.

Yeah, there's been a few cutaways on death scenes which make you wonder. I still wonder about the Hound at the end of season four.

Oh! Just had a great thought. Hound comes back and has to do battle with his reanimated brother. Revenge for the face burning while helping out the heroes a bit.

Then he kills Arya, cause she was really mean to him in the end, and didn't finish him off. Poor Arya.

[Locke]

Unfortunately, as time goes on I think we're going to see more about the magic. The re-animated Mountain, maybe a few guys being brought back to life, a few people becoming White Walker minions.

And it might be okay. It might be. Its just that 'magic' can also be a real cop-out and thats a very unique thing about Game of Thrones, its uncompromising.

Your favourite character is dead? Tough.

[Yeah_Baby]

Unfortunately, as time goes on I think we're going to see more about the magic. The re-animated Mountain, maybe a few guys being brought back to life, a few people becoming White Walker minions.



And it might be okay. It might be. Its just that 'magic' can also be a real cop-out and thats a very unique thing about Game of Thrones, its uncompromising.



Your favourite character is dead? Tough.


The mountain was fantasy pseudoscience, not magic.

[Locke]

The mountain was fantasy pseudoscience, not magic.

I know that, but you get my point.

[Yeah_Baby]

I know that, but you get my point.

Point taken, but to be fair, we've already seen someone brought back from death (Beric). However think of the positive magic could bring, like erasing all our collective memories of last years Dorne plot.

[Inglewood Jack]

can magic erase all memories of Dorne except for Tyene? and can those particular memories be amplified and extended?

[GreenLantern]

I think those particular memories were already 'amplified' once :p

[Yamer]

I think those particular memories were already 'amplified' once :p

And, subsequently, extended...

[Hessen]

A prequel of the Dance of Dragons or following Bittersteel, the formation of the Golden Company and the Blackfyre rebellions would be cool.

[Kavvy]

bah deleted. Don't want to get all the hate from people blaming me from bringing in book spoilers despite the warnings from my quote, the spoilers tag, and that the video description states it contains no show spoilers.

Just not worth the risk to share something people my like even behind spoiler tags.

[Mike F]

^^^^

Pretty much every quote/reference comes from book chapters.

Not saying there are "spoilers", but it's far from TV show only evidence

[Finger Cookin]

Season 6 to be renamed A Game of Tarlys (http://deadline.com/2015/09/game-of-thrones-cast-tarly-season-6-james-faulkner-1201532471/)

[ScorchyScorch]

http://images-cdn.moviepilot.com/images/c_fill,h_1131,w_960/t_mp_quality/afvisdndqf174t1gjbwg/confirmed-winter-is-coming-back-conclusive-proof-that-jon-snow-is-returning-for-season-6-632317.jpg

Oh hey look, it's Kit Harington filming on the set of a big battle (supposedly between wildlings/northerners and the Boltons) in Belfast. And as you will notice, he's no longer wearing the black of the Night's Watch.

[getbak]

And as you will notice, he's no longer wearing the black of the Night's Watch.
Not the Black, but definitely looks familiar...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/07/c8/b5/07c8b5fc09f2a21ba40d6b7e3ff47452.jpg

[ScorchyScorch]

So Jon Snow, lord commander did die.

Now it's Jon Stark. :)

[Daradon]

Zomg!

Yup, worst kept secret in current television. One doesn't even have to be in book speculation to have figured this one out.

[MrMastodonFarm]

6th and final episode of the Telltale Game of Thrones game is finally available November 17th, four long months since episode 5. Hopefully the season ends with a long engaging installment. Episode five was released less than a month after the 4th and was rather paltry I found.

[blankall]

Zomg!

Yup, worst kept secret in current television. One doesn't even have to be in book speculation to have figured this one out.


Yeah...high ranking members of a cult that has the ability to resurrect people just happen to be in the neighborhood?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Spoiler for the Telltale Game of Thrones Game

Recap of the series and quick trailer for episode 6 which is now available for download. 3.22 GB download.

8FB10IUnHqw

The entire season is available tomorrow in stores as a physical copy as well.

[GreenLantern]

Season 6 GoT teaser poster:

http://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/JS-Tease.jpg

[Senator Clay Davis]

Time to get teased

IxI8aPISq8I

[sureLoss]

Season 4 Blu-Ray $19.95 at Best Buy

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/game-of-thrones-season-4-tyrell-packaging-only-at-best-buy-blu-ray-blu-ray-disc/m2215650.aspx?path=24f537356a000df3859e4befce6a617 fen02

[AC]

Season 4 Blu-Ray $19.95 at Best Buy

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/game-of-thrones-season-4-tyrell-packaging-only-at-best-buy-blu-ray-blu-ray-disc/m2215650.aspx?path=24f537356a000df3859e4befce6a617 fen02

Awesome, the non Tyrell or Martel packaging version is on sale for $50 currently.

[Looch City]

Hype! The Targaryen one is really chilling.

CkuSem8KJP4

U6je-48zll4

z2jYWtZ-JOc

[Daradon]

Good. It's about time Dany got into some real trouble.

[getbak]

News photos from Season 6: http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/exclusive-pictures-season-6


Bran seems to have aged about a decade since we last saw him.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Bran seems to have aged about a decade since we last saw him.

And appears to be standing.

[FlameOn]

And appears to be standing.

Maybe another one of his lucid dreams. It does say the other guy is the human "three eyed raven" in the captions.

[saillias]

6th and final episode of the Telltale Game of Thrones game is finally available November 17th, four long months since episode 5. Hopefully the season ends with a long engaging installment. Episode five was released less than a month after the 4th and was rather paltry I found.

A little late since you posted, but man I had high hopes for this game. It ended up being possibly the worst video game I've played in 5 years.

[photon]

Bran looks so old!!

http://i.imgur.com/21ZXazb.jpg

[Yamer]

A friendly heads-up:

There are a couple shots in that link that, while not spoilers themselves, indicate that they will be re-visiting a rather substantial neglected storyline from the books. So be wary of potential spoilers elsewhere.

[Locke]

A friendly heads-up:

There are a couple shots in that link that, while not spoilers themselves, indicate that they will be re-visiting a rather substantial neglected storyline from the books. So be wary of potential spoilers elsewhere.

Oh great, this isnt going to be another 'Book-Reader' self-love fest is it?

I thought we were done with that crap.

[Yamer]

Oh great, this isnt going to be another 'Book-Reader' self-love fest is it?

I thought we were done with that crap.

I think a lot of people thought the same as there seemed to a general consensus that the show has now overtaken the books. Unfortunately, that is not completely true as there is still quite a bit of material that could still be used in the show (and it looks like it will).

Of course, in some instances we are now in completely uncharted territory...and I can't wait to see it!

[Matata]

A little late since you posted, but man I had high hopes for this game. It ended up being possibly the worst video game I've played in 5 years.

I thought chapters 1-5 were great, they seemed like they building up to something big, but chapter 6 was such a let down that it made the entire thing feel like a waste, instead of a satisfying ending where they tie together all the story lines and the decisions you made, the whole thing just falls off a cliff.

[Kavvy]

Don't know how to embed this but...

https://twitter.com/GameOfThrones/status/698559804151717889

[Mike F]

Oh great, this isnt going to be another 'Book-Reader' self-love fest is it?

I thought we were done with that crap.
LOL... Guy tries to help avoid storylines being spoiled, the source of night terrors for many here, and gets chewed out for it.

Go ahead then, search out discussions about all of the images released. I imagine you'll find some very detailed "speculation" on a few of them.

[Kavvy]

Season 6 Teaser:
OmrA8nOZF2Q