Advice: Going back to school, in your 30's

[Thor]

So me and my best friend have been science junkies the last well 5 years especially.

This year he and I have decided to go back to University (or MRC) to get our Bsc in Biology.

Has anyone else done this in their mid 30s? Its exciting for me and I'm thrilled to go back and learn full time, but its a sacrifice obviously for at least 4yrs and a bit nerve wracking because of that.

The thought of Math always scares me so we're taking a Math 30 course in the summer just to familiarize ourselves with it again.

Also if anyone has their Bsc and is a Biologist of any shape/form, I'd love to hear about what you do, what you would recommend for specialization, microbiology, evolutionary biology, marine, etc..

[4X4]

I call BS!! You're doing it to hang around with the college cuties, aren't you?

[photon]

I'm jealous.

[MattyC]

As a relatively new university student. Don't be the older guy who always speaks up in class from "Life experience". Everyone hates that guy

[NSFL]

And to add to MattyC's point, don't be the freaking know it all who tries to have a discussion on a topic with the prof while class is going on. Wait until after if you are really so interested.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

I call it, "An excuse for him to score more pot and wave his ass at the co-eds".

[Thor]

As a relatively new university student. Don't be the older guy who always speaks up in class from "Life experience". Everyone hates that guy

Haha, yeah I remember 'that guy' back in the 90's. Guaranteed I'll shut up and just learn.:bag:

[onetwo_threefour]

I'm jealous.

I would be if it was any science but biology [shudder]

Although I was keen on neurobiology in my psych degree, but more from a electrochemical perspective than a gooey brains perspective.

[onetwo_threefour]

And to add to MattyC's point, don't be the freaking know it all who tries to have a discussion on a topic with the prof while class is going on. Wait until after if you are really so interested.

Why what's wrong with that?? :bag::whistle:

[4X4]

As a relatively new university student. Don't be the older guy who always speaks up in class from "Life experience". Everyone hates that guy

Blargh! Reminds me of a guy that was in a land development course I took a couple months ago. No idea why he was there; all he did was interrupt the teacher and tell him "in reality, blah blah blah" Or "Not always... Sometimes this or that can happen..."[/rant]

Anyway, as for going back to school in your 30s, I've found that my brain doesn't absorb things the way it used to. Seems like I just learn stuff long enough to pass tests. But that's ok because it has taught me to reference my textbooks and to write alot of notes and specific page numbers on the table of contents page to lead me back to that one fact that I want to reference.
For some reason, I was always afraid to write in textbooks. Nowadays, I don't even bring a notebook. All my notes go in the margins of the texbooks.

[Thor]

I would be if it was any science but biology [shudder]

Although I was keen on neurobiology in my psych degree, but more from a electrochemical perspective than a gooey brains perspective.

My friend is into Neuro Science, but to have to get into med school and the extra years in school is an issue. We'll see what he ends up doing, but I know if he had his way he wants to study the brain over anything else.

He might end up after his first year majoring in Psych depending how things go, but we'll see.

[onetwo_threefour]

My friend is into Neuro Science, but to have to get into med school and the extra years in school is an issue. We'll see what he ends up doing, but I know if he had his way he wants to study the brain over anything else.

He might end up after his first year majoring in Psych depending how things go, but we'll see.

You can do some interesting neurobiology in an undergrad in third or fourth year if you take the right pre-reqs. I took three courses in the psychology department that I would classify as 'neurobiology'. Neuropharmacology was a really interesting course as well. I suspect that these wouldn't be offered at MRC though.

[flamingchina]

While I wasn't in my mid thirties, I was in my mid to late 20s...
forthed, don't be the annoying old guy in class.
Some students will seem like high school kids, some will be good, as you go on in your studies, they'll get better.
Bone up on your math before you go.
Don't go to the Den and try and pick up girls.

[Jayems]

Well, I'd like to know how some profs got jobs. Sure, they're knowledgeable in their subject but lack any fundamental idea on how to teach it to students. I honestly have a class where I show up only to write my name on a piece of paper, and surf CP all class because the prof fumbles with words, gives wrong info, catches it, then gives the right info... confuses the hell out of everyone... then gets mad when no one speaks in class about what was just taught. I just study the material on my own time.

I'd have to say, a laptop is almost a must. I don't think I could have done without mine.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Thor, I know this subject better than anyone here...or at least as well. If you take nothing else from this thread KNOW THIS....

DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, STOP.

I have experiences in this too vast to post in this thread, feel free to PM me and I'll happily share with you.

I commend your decision and am very happy for you!

[Displaced Flames fan]

As for specialties, this is something only you can decide (DUH), but microbiology is fascinating, FUN and has a huge variety of applications in the working world.

[Jayems]

Thats the other thing... your're probably making a decision to go back to school to do something you genuinely love to do. Its why i went back. I love it. Now, I'm in my final semester. I constantly hear other students cry about how much they hate college etc... so why are you doing it? Why not change majors?

If you love what you're doing, you'll love school and will be one hell of an experience. I miss making money... but, they say this is the best time to be in school (re: economy)

And who said don't go pick up chicks?

If your a single guy, and you pull it off... well sir, I'd tip my hat to you. There's bound to be one gal angry at daddy.

[Thor]

As for specialties, this is something only you can decide (DUH), but microbiology is fascinating, FUN and has a huge variety of applications in the working world.

That's one of the reasons it appeals to me, variety and its very interesting indeed.

[henriksedin33]

As a relatively new university student. Don't be the older guy who always speaks up in class from "Life experience". Everyone hates that guy

My first thought immediately after seeing the thread title. Please don't be "that guy".

[Kybosh]

Work hard, get good grades and see if someone will hire you for summer or semester research projects. I'm not gonna lie, research can be a cold merciless witch but it is really great at the same time. Very good experience and you'll get paid.

Also, will you punch any science student you meet that says they are pre-med? There is no such thing in Calgary and I hate all those stupid kids.

Edit: I should mention that I'm a PhD. chemist, not a BioSci guy but I've had plenty of overlap. Send me PM's if you want advice for anything.

[bigtmac19]

As a relatively new university student. Don't be the older guy who always speaks up in class from "Life experience". Everyone hates that guy

Ha Ha, I've heard a few stories about people like this from my son's girlfriend. She hates those people too.

[Sainters7]

As a relatively new university student. Don't be the older guy who always speaks up in class from "Life experience". Everyone hates that guy

Haha why is there always one of these? I once had a woman in my class where every single lesson somehow reminded her of one of her kids and she had a story for. It got to the point where me and my buddy in the back of the room made up a fictional friend for a while that everything reminded us of. I hope she picked up what we were layin down.

On a side note, I chose to go back to school as well(although I was 24, I'm finishing up next year). Sometimes I felt old(especially in those first year classes with the kids straight out of HS), but for the most part I've loved it. Best decision I ever made. Had I not done it and stayed in my original career, I'm convinced I'd be doing the weather in Indian Head, Saskatchewan right now.

[killer_carlson]

I was coming in this thread to say the exact same thing about the older "know it all".

Resist the urge.

Do not ever ask a hypothetical that begins with "what if"; AND
Do not ever start a "contribution" that could be started with "and one time, at ____"

[Buff]

As a relatively new university student. Don't be the older guy who always speaks up in class from "Life experience". Everyone hates that guy

Ha ha! We had a girl like that in our class when I was taking Business. She started nearly every comment with "Well, when I was a manager...".

[troutman]

Now, that's what I call marine biology! - Thornton Melon

[RougeUnderoos]

I don't know why everyone is hacking on "the older guy". They can be helpful.

This one time I was in a class (college) and the guest speaker was a female news anchor from a local television station. "The older guy", who commented or argued about absolutely everything, said "I hope you don't mind me saying so, but you look a lot better on TV".

[Dion]

A good friend of mine went back to University in his mid 30's. Decided he wanted a career in electrical engineering. He did quite well and graduated with honors.

The downside for him was a loss of 5 years of earning potential. In the end he made more than triple the money he was making in his old job. More to the point he's now doing something he enjoys.

[automaton 3]

Blargh! Reminds me of a guy that was in a land development course I took a couple months ago. No idea why he was there; all he did was interrupt the teacher and tell him "in reality, blah blah blah" Or "Not always... Sometimes this or that can happen..."[/rant]

Anyway, as for going back to school in your 30s, I've found that my brain doesn't absorb things the way it used to. Seems like I just learn stuff long enough to pass tests. But that's ok because it has taught me to reference my textbooks and to write alot of notes and specific page numbers on the table of contents page to lead me back to that one fact that I want to reference.
For some reason, I was always afraid to write in textbooks. Nowadays, I don't even bring a notebook. All my notes go in the margins of the texbooks.

Back then you were probably banking on selling your textbooks for beer money and the inevitable end of year partying.

[bcb]

I have my B.Sc in Biology from U of C.

Good for you for going back!
Be aware though, that you will encounter math at some points in the four years. It's pretty standard in B.Sc programs to have two math courses (calculus or linear algebra). Organic Chem and General Chem both have math. (You'll be required to have at least 3 chem courses and Biochem also has math. That's all in the first two years.

I did my first two years at MRC and then transferred to U of C. The thing is, U of C is great in 3rd and 4th years; however, the first twp years are incredibly weed-outish with impersonal professors and mediocre teaching at best. If you can, I would suggest MRC the first two years.

The nice thing is that 4th year bio classes are often run seminar-style, with 10-20 people in each class.

[Thor]

Thanks bcb, I'm planning to go the MRC 2yrs then head over to the U of C route.

I'll have to work harder on Math than anything else but we have a good friend who's a math teacher and she can tutor us on any sticking points we have.

Just curious did you continue on after your Bsc to any specialty, and if so/or if not what are you working as today?

[stuck_in_chuk]

I went back to school in my mid-30's. Best decision I could have made. I now have a job that I love and work with people who I like, which was certainly not the case prior to (or during) my re-education.

I found it easier - being at a different stage of life, I did not party as much as before, and being married I was not chasing women. I was still able to hold down a part-time job. I was also more committed to my studies as I was doing something that I wanted (and my life experience had taught me what I did not want to do with my life).

[Rathji]

I went back when I was 30. I also took Math 30 before hand and am so glad I did because over 50% of it was totally new material.

I will admit that sometimes I think I come across as 'that guy' but only because I ask questions. 4X4 is totally right, it is hard to process this much new information as you get older. I deal with that by asking questions to clarify the material as it is being taught.

[henriksedin33]

Ha ha! We had a girl like that in our class when I was taking Business. She started nearly every comment with "Well, when I was a manager...".

Anyone else notice how these know it alls only seem to be found in lower-level courses? At least in my experience, the only ones I can remember were all in ridiculously easy first year classes (which I'm sure also contributed to making them feel smarter than they actually were). They generally don't seem to make it too far...

Prove me wrong OP, prove me wrong.:cool:

[bcb]

Thanks bcb, I'm planning to go the MRC 2yrs then head over to the U of C route.

I'll have to work harder on Math than anything else but we have a good friend who's a math teacher and she can tutor us on any sticking points we have.

Just curious did you continue on after your Bsc to any specialty, and if so/or if not what are you working as today?

I "unofficially majored" in botany and zoology with an "unofficial minor" in history.

I went on to do my B.Ed and am currently a high school science teacher.

But, there are plenty of field-related science jobs out there. With all the focus on climate, how can there not be?

You can also register as a "professional biologist" with ASPB, which is kind of cool.

[bcb]

And I also retook math 30 after high school

[eddly]

I enjoyed the classes where there was actual class discussion the most. Find a balance, don't talk just for the sake of talking, but don't think you have to be a mute. Be "that guy" if that is how you need to learn. Do whatever you want, at the end of the day you need to get what you want out of it.

As far as Sciences go, I came close to finishing a degree in Molecular Biology and Biochemistry. About 5 classes away to be exact. I just found that while I had the passion to learn the material, I had no desire to find a job related to what I was studying. I switched to a Business degree with a concentration in accounting (probably sounds boring) and moved my Science credits into a MBB minor. It was an expensive change, but at the end of the day you have to enjoy your job.

By the time I finished school I was 29 (still am now actually). Sometimes I was the oldest in the class, but most of the time there were a few older. It isn't high school though and consequently no one really cares how old you are.

[NSFL]

Why what's wrong with that?? :bag::whistle:

Let me tell you a little story. There was this guy in my history classes I liked to call Chatty Wanker. Because I swear to crap, he probably wouldn't be able to shut up while wanking either. God, he would derail class all the freaking time because he would pick some random point and decide to start arguing with the prof. We literally had to skip 300 years of history because we didn't have enough time to go through it. Near the end of the semester, you could tell the prof was just trying to ignore him. I hope sincerely that you aren't Chatty Wanker. *Is still angry after all this time*

[onetwo_threefour]

Let me tell you a little story. There was this guy in my history classes I liked to call Chatty Wanker. Because I swear to crap, he probably wouldn't be able to shut up while wanking either. God, he would derail class all the freaking time because he would pick some random point and decide to start arguing with the prof. We literally had to skip 300 years of history because we didn't have enough time to go through it. Near the end of the semester, you could tell the prof was just trying to ignore him. I hope sincerely that you aren't Chatty Wanker. *Is still angry after all this time*

Nah, I was kidding. I was pretty high on class participation, but never to carry on a conversation or challenge what we were being taught. (well except maybe a couple of times at MRC when the teacher would get basic facts wrong). I was more the type to hang out with philosophy profs at the pub to have discussions about tthe more intellectually stimulating topics.

[John Doe]

Best of luck. I went back in my mid 20's (a long time ago) and it was the best thing I could have done. I wasn't mature enough to have gone straight out of high school, and would have failed out within the first few years (it would have been fun, though). I even came out of it with a wife, so be careful!

As for being the guy who argues with the prof, don't worry about it. I know those guys are annoying (note: I wasn't one of them) but if you have a question or don't understand a concept, don't be afraid to ask, especially in math courses. You can do it after class, but sometimes it is something small that you are missing that will keep you from understand the concepts being taught that day. Remember, you are paying the school a lot of money for an education. Make sure you get your money's worth.

[DESS]

I think going back in your mid 30s is a terrible idea, unless of course you have rich parents that can subsidize your schooling costs, your life while in school, and the years after school as you struggle with earning a starting salary at 40ish. And this would also presuppose you would be willing to take their money even though you are an adult, which is a tad unmanly, IMO. (much like using the word "tad" is unmanly, lol)

If you do not have rich parents, here is the bigger problem. School should be looked at as an investment. Your career is likely not going to earn you enough money to give you a payoff on your investment. Say you work until you're 55 or 60...that's only 15-20 years of work after your degree. You're going to have to do a calculation kind of like this to see if this is worthwhile:

ROI = [what you can realistically make with the degree over course of your career after you graduate - what you would realistically make had you not earned a degree over the same time period] - [(cost of education including living expenses, tuition, books, etc.) + (loss of salary calculated at approximately your current rate for the four years you're in school) + (interest on any loans you may need to finance your education)]

I hope that makes sense, but my point is from a purely financial perspective, this is likely a very bad idea in that you're going to end up with a negative return on investment, particularly because you're exploring a career that isn't going to be very lucrative.

If you have rich parents and don't mind sucking on their teet at 35, however, go nuts and good luck!

[moon]

I think going back in your mid 30s is a terrible idea,

Thats because you are a huge idiot.

unless of course you have rich parents that can subsidize your schooling costs, your life while in school, and the years after school as you struggle with earning a starting salary at 40ish.

So no chance that he has made money and saved in the 15 or so years that he has been working?

No chance that he can get a decent job out of school?

And this would also presuppose you would be willing to take their money even though you are an adult, which is a tad unmanly, IMO. (much like using the word "tad" is unmanly, lol)

So its cool for chicks to take money as an adult?

Also. much better for parents to horde then money until they are dead and then give it to their kids when the kids are likely old enough to not need it?

It would be terrible to give your kids money while you are still alive to see them enjoy it and put it to use when they actually need it.

If you do not have rich parents, here is the bigger problem. School should be looked at as an investment. Your career is likely not going to earn you enough money to give you a payoff on your investment. Say you work until you're 55 or 60...that's only 15-20 years of work after your degree. You're going to have to do a calculation kind of like this to see if this is worthwhile:

ROI = [what you can realistically make with the degree over course of your career after you graduate - what you would realistically make had you not earned a degree over the same time period] - [(cost of education including living expenses, tuition, books, etc.) + (loss of salary calculated at approximately your current rate for the four years you're in school) + (interest on any loans you may need to finance your education)]

If this new job has him making 10,000 more a year it is easy to make any money invested in school back. Any more than that and it obviously gets much easier.

And heaven forbid he actually does this for non-financial reasons and because he wants to have a better lifestyle/job life for himself. That would be a really stupid reason to do anything!

I hope that makes sense, but my point is from a purely financial perspective, this is likely a very bad idea in that you're going to end up with a negative return on investment, particularly because you're exploring a career that isn't going to be very lucrative.

How do you know how lucrative his career is going to be? There is money to be made in any area of schooling/employment.

Hell he might go into a job that involves killing bears and I find it hard to believe that the return on that investment wouldn't be worth it!

[DESS]

I'm afraid my post went over your head, Moon. Or you prejudged it because you don't like me. I will pray for you my friend.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I hope that makes sense, but my point is from a purely financial perspective,

Yeah thats pretty apparent. Not everybody evaluates the major decisions in their life solely from a financial perspective.

A lot of people don't want to spend 20 years of their life doing something they don't enjoy just to make some money that they can barely use because they are so busy working all the time.

I went back to school in the my mid 20's and it was the best decision I could have made. Got me out of a well paying software development job and learning about stuff that I was interested in. Would make the same decision again and again.

[troutman]

Sometimes I wear a tweed jacket with elbow patches, and just hang around student pubs to meet co-eds.

[onetwo_threefour]

You are a very narrowly focused person Dess. Do you accept that there are other valid points of view beyond your own?

You call people illogical who disagree with your stance on bear killing, you believe that the Christian minority of Calgary should rise up and take charge of a completely non religious major international event, and you accuse someone of orejudging your post when they took the time to dissect each point you made.

[DESS]

Yeah thats pretty apparent. Not everybody evaluates the major decisions in their life solely from a financial perspective.

A lot of people don't want to spend 20 years of their life doing something they don't enjoy just to make some money that they can barely use because they are so busy working all the time.

I went back to school in the my mid 20's and it was the best decision I could have made. Got me out of a well paying software development job and learning about stuff that I was interested in. Would make the same decision again and again.

Mid 20s is a different story. You should have gone back and you will very likely benefit from your decision. Good for you, dude.

Mid 30s is a totally different ball of wax. And the financial component of it is extremely important as he has to consider his inabilitiy (or limited ability) to save towards retirement during the time he is in school, while paying back student loans, and while he has a starting salary straight out of school and will not likely being making much money.

Yes maybe his life will be more fulfilling on one level, but if he then has to work an extra five years to recoup his investment, he is selling his retirment short.

If he's not happy with his current job, there are a lot of things he could do that don't include going to school, which is a poor financial decision with ramifications that extend beyond his bank account/line of credit.

[DESS]

You are a very narrowly focused person Dess. Do you accept that there are other valid points of view beyond your own?

You call people illogical who disagree with your stance on near killing, you believe that the Christian minority of Calgary should rise up and take charge of a completely non religious major international event, and you accuse someone of orejudging your post when they took the time to dissect each point you made.

He took the time to dissect my post, and normally I would have taken time to respond to him. I think if nothing else I've shown that I am willing to explain myself to you guys. I didn't bother with that one because, frankly, I didn't think he was actually reading my posts...just trying to discredit me without putting to much thought into it. I simply returned the favour.

BTW, you have embellished what I've said as well. ;)

[moon]

Mid 20s is a different story. You should have gone back and you will very likely benefit from your decision. Good for you, dude.

Mid 30s is a totally different ball of wax. And the financial component of it is extremely important as he has to consider his inabilitiy (or limited ability) to save towards retirement during the time he is in school, while paying back student loans, and while he has a starting salary straight out of school and will not likely being making much money.

Yes maybe his life will be more fulfilling on one level, but if he then has to work an extra five years to recoup his investment, he is selling his retirment short.

If he's not happy with his current job, there are a lot of things he could do that don't include going to school, which is a poor financial decision with ramifications that extend beyond his bank account/line of credit.

You have no idea about the financial ramifications of this decision though?

how much is he making right now?
how much will he save in his current position over 4 years if he doesn't go to school?
how much will he be able to save in the years after school vs. those same years if he didn't go to school?

Even looking at it from your stupid financial only outlook it could still be a very good decision. Depending on Thor and his buddies backgrounds they could be making a very smart decision financially to go back to school.

Anyways the main point is that you should definitely do it Thor, if you are going back to take something that you are really interested in.

[moon]

I'm afraid my post went over your head, Moon. Or you prejudged it because you don't like me. I will pray for you my friend.

He took the time to dissect my post, and normally I would have taken time to respond to him. I think if nothing else I've shown that I am willing to explain myself to you guys. I didn't bother with that one because, frankly, I didn't think he was actually reading my posts...just trying to discredit me without putting to much thought into it. I simply returned the favour.

BTW, you have embellished what I've said as well. ;)

How did I respond to each of you points without reading the post? ;)

I don't care what you have said in other threads. I don't really remember what was said in the Bear thread and only vaguely skimmed over your statements in the International city thread as well.

You had plenty of ridiculous statements in the post in this thread so there really is no need for me to go back to other statements to "judge" you. I can assure 100% that everything I said about that post had to do with the stupid comments made in it and nothing to do with other moronic posts you have made on this site.

[Locke]

Man, back to school in your mid 30s?

I can tell you, unequivocally that if this were me I'd be out looking for a gun...nothing fancy, I'm only going to use it just the once....

Now, obviously my opinion is tainted by the fact that I've been an on again off again student for the last 6 years and I've been jerked around by University counselors and schedulers and pretty much every other ass-hat with even a modicum of scholarly authority.

So, would I want to go back? I'm 1 class short of my degree and I dont want to go back to do that either.

Now, thats not to say school is no fun, thats not true at all, I've had a great time there, made a lot of good friends and had lots of fun, but thats usually either at school's expense or in spite of school.

God I hate school...

Go for the fun of it and leave when the fun is over, thats my best advice to you. To commit to it until you're basically 40? I think thats insane, but do what moves you man.

[fatso]

I think going back in your mid 30s is a terrible idea, unless of course you have rich parents that can subsidize your schooling costs, your life while in school, and the years after school as you struggle with earning a starting salary at 40ish. And this would also presuppose you would be willing to take their money even though you are an adult, which is a tad unmanly, IMO. (much like using the word "tad" is unmanly, lol)

If you do not have rich parents, here is the bigger problem. School should be looked at as an investment. Your career is likely not going to earn you enough money to give you a payoff on your investment. Say you work until you're 55 or 60...that's only 15-20 years of work after your degree. You're going to have to do a calculation kind of like this to see if this is worthwhile:

ROI = [what you can realistically make with the degree over course of your career after you graduate - what you would realistically make had you not earned a degree over the same time period] - [(cost of education including living expenses, tuition, books, etc.) + (loss of salary calculated at approximately your current rate for the four years you're in school) + (interest on any loans you may need to finance your education)]

I hope that makes sense, but my point is from a purely financial perspective, this is likely a very bad idea in that you're going to end up with a negative return on investment, particularly because you're exploring a career that isn't going to be very lucrative.

If you have rich parents and don't mind sucking on their teet at 35, however, go nuts and good luck!

Awesome point. I definitely think the OP should slog away unhappy and retire at 55 to sit at home wondering 'what if?' than work 'til 65 at a career he finds personally fulfilling. Makes perfect sense!

[onetwo_threefour]

He took the time to dissect my post, and normally I would have taken time to respond to him. I think if nothing else I've shown that I am willing to explain myself to you guys. I didn't bother with that one because, frankly, I didn't think he was actually reading my posts...just trying to discredit me without putting to much thought into it. I simply returned the favour.

BTW, you have embellished what I've said as well. ;)

It's teh interwebz what do u expect? :D

[DESS]

You have no idea about the financial ramifications of this decision though?

how much is he making right now?
how much will he save in his current position over 4 years if he doesn't go to school?
how much will he be able to save in the years after school vs. those same years if he didn't go to school?

Did you not see the formula I gave him to plug his own numbers into? It's for him to decide if it's a good financial decision, but I hope I helped him look at it from that angle. At the very least, it should be a factor in his decision. My advice is also a little more practical than telling him to avoid being the mature loud-mouth student at the front like everybody else has done for three straight pages.

Even looking at it from your stupid financial only outlook it could still be a very good decision. Depending on Thor and his buddies backgrounds they could be making a very smart decision financially to go back to school.

Well, I have a cousin who has her doctorate in biochemistry, and let me assure you it is not a lucrative career path on average.

Anyways the main point is that you should definitely do it Thor, if you are going back to take something that you are really interested in.

Thor, please look at this a bit more critically than these back slappers would have you do. There is more to this than follow your dreams and it will all work out. It's a complicated decision you're about to make that will affect every facet of your life.

Going with something purely based on interest is great if you're wealthy, but if you live in the real world you should be asking yourself where you want to be in 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, and 35 years as your entire life is going to be affected by the decisions you make leading up to the start of the semester. Answers to those questions will inevitably affect what you decide to take in school (if you decided to go), because the four years you spend there are less important than 40 years you're going to spend in life once you have your degree.

Also really examine why you're doing this. Is it because you are unhappy with your life right now and think this is the thing holding you back? Maybe it is and maybe it isn't, but you have to be very careful here, because it would be unfortunate if you completed all this work at great expense with huge ramifications only to find it is something else holding back your happiness.



see above

[simonsays]

...Kill all bears...Let's have a more Christian stampede...At least with some Christian influence perhaps those atheists could be saved...teachers have the easiest job in the world...I don't like solar panels...secondary schooling is a purely financial decision...I will pray for moon...
I disagree with every single one of your opinions.

If Thor wants to return to school he should. Of coarse he should consider why he's going back, but I'm assuming that he isn't jumping into the deep end of the pool just because he heard that swimming is neat. And by the way, life isn't about retirement it's about living. If doing something different with your career will improve your quality of life then you go for it, even if there are risks involved.

[DESS]

I disagree with every single one of your opinions.

If Thor wants to return to school he should. Of coarse he should consider why he's going back, but I'm assuming that he isn't jumping into the deep end of the pool just because he heard that swimming is neat. And by the way, life isn't about retirement it's about living. If doing something different with your career will improve your quality of life then you go for it, even if there are risks involved.

Mods: Can we please edit Thor's original post where he solicits "advice" (yes that is the exact word used in the title of this thread)? It's causing too much confusion as it is written. Perhaps we could change it to something like: Come in here and tell Thor what other people think Thor needs/wants to here. Then maybe we could have a group of five or six PC CPers vet the posts before they are added to the thread, and if they don't include any of the following sentiments...
- don't talk in class
- follow your heart
- don't worry about the cost, just do what you love (apparently CPers don't watch the news and don't know this is the attitude that has brought financial ruin to the world's doorstep)
...they could simply be deleted before they are posted. :rolleyes:

[llama64]

Mods: Can we please edit Thor's original post where he solicits "advice" (yes that is the exact word used in the title of this thread)? It's causing too much confusion as it is written. Perhaps we could change it to something like: Come in here and tell Thor what other people think Thor needs/wants to here. Then maybe we could have a group of five or six PC CPers vet the posts before they are added to the thread, and if they don't include any of the following sentiments...
- don't talk in class
- follow your heart
- don't worry about the cost, just do what you love (apparently CPers don't watch the news and don't know this is the attitude that has brought financial ruin to the world's doorstep)
...they could simply be deleted before they are posted. :rolleyes:

You stated an opinion. People disagreed (quite possibly because your tone is so combative).

Either carry on the discussion or leave it alone.

Thor: Grats on going back to school! I made that descision early on and can tell you it is a world of difference to be doing something I really enjoy rather then working to pay the bills.

We only get one life, so we might as well be happy in it.

[DESS]

You stated an opinion. People disagreed (quite possibly because your tone is so combative).

Either carry on the discussion or leave it alone.


So I'm the combative one, eh? I'd love to see some examples of that. Examples like these:

Thats because you are a huge idiot.

You are a very narrowly focused person Dess.

Even looking at it from your stupid financial only outlook it could still be a very good decision.

I can assure 100% that everything I said about that post had to do with the stupid comments made in it and nothing to do with other moronic posts you have made on this site.

[JiriHrdina]

I did it - and it was the best decision I ever made. Not only did it put me on the right career path but I really enjoyed school the second time around. There was some culture shock at first, but after it wore off it was fantastic.

[JiriHrdina]

Mods: Can we please edit Thor's original post where he solicits "advice" (yes that is the exact word used in the title of this thread)? It's causing too much confusion as it is written. Perhaps we could change it to something like: Come in here and tell Thor what other people think Thor needs/wants to here. Then maybe we could have a group of five or six PC CPers vet the posts before they are added to the thread, and if they don't include any of the following sentiments...
- don't talk in class
- follow your heart
- don't worry about the cost, just do what you love (apparently CPers don't watch the news and don't know this is the attitude that has brought financial ruin to the world's doorstep)
...they could simply be deleted before they are posted. :rolleyes:

Or you could just chill out.

[onetwo_threefour]

Dess,

Narrowly focused is not combative, it's an observation based on the breadth of the arguments you raise to support your position, and your apparent refusal to accept the validity of points of view other than your own.

I think you have made some interesting economic points in this thread, but they are largely buried in the over-the-top position that you take that they are the only relevant considerations. (or even the most important ones, so I don't get accused of embellishing again)

[CaptainCrunch]

Hey I admire someone who's a bit older who goes back to school to better himself, you know takes a pitstop on the rat race for higher learning.

Bottom line, I'm in my early 40's, and at some point I'll go pursue another degree just because I can.

[Phanuthier]

I find the more mature students generally seem to enjoy classes and going to school more then someone who is younger. For me personally, I'm with Locke - I find it hard to understand why someone would want to go back to school unless you have a definate goal you are working towards (some of the posters here) rather then "just for the hell of it" (Captain Crunch). I guess alot comes down to what is the benefit of getting a degree vs what you can just pickup yourself anyways, I know for me, it felt like 75% of my undergrad classes were completely useless and I got next to nothing out of it.

[troutman]

I find it hard to understand why someone would want to go back to school

Babes.

You are all over-analyzing this.

[Dion]

I think going back in your mid 30s is a terrible idea, unless of course you have rich parents that can subsidize your schooling costs, your life while in school, and the years after school as you struggle with earning a starting salary at 40ish. And this would also presuppose you would be willing to take their money even though you are an adult, which is a tad unmanly, IMO. (much like using the word "tad" is unmanly, lol)

If you do not have rich parents, here is the bigger problem. School should be looked at as an investment. Your career is likely not going to earn you enough money to give you a payoff on your investment. Say you work until you're 55 or 60...that's only 15-20 years of work after your degree. You're going to have to do a calculation kind of like this to see if this is worthwhile:

ROI = [what you can realistically make with the degree over course of your career after you graduate - what you would realistically make had you not earned a degree over the same time period] - [(cost of education including living expenses, tuition, books, etc.) + (loss of salary calculated at approximately your current rate for the four years you're in school) + (interest on any loans you may need to finance your education)]

I hope that makes sense, but my point is from a purely financial perspective, this is likely a very bad idea in that you're going to end up with a negative return on investment, particularly because you're exploring a career that isn't going to be very lucrative.

If you have rich parents and don't mind sucking on their teet at 35, however, go nuts and good luck!

A good friend went back to university in his mid 30's. He did not get ANY financial support from his parents nor was he sucking on thier teet. He owned his own home and took in roomates to help offset the cost of his education. He was also able to return to his former position in the company during the summer months. It can be done.

Then you say school should be looked as an investment. Did it ever occur to you that doing something you like for the rest of your life is an investment also. Imagine getting up on a Monday morning and actaully looking forward to going to work that day. Money isn't everything.

[DESS]

A good friend went back to university in his mid 30's. He did not get ANY financial support from his parents nor was he sucking on thier teet. He owned his own home and took in roomates to help offset the cost of his education. He was also able to return to his former position in the company during the summer months. It can be done.

Then you say school should be looked as an investment. Did it ever occur to you that doing something you like for the rest of your life is an investment also. Imagine getting up on a Monday morning and actaully looking forward to going to work that day. Money isn't everything.

I agree, but it is a very important consideration that I hadn't seen raised until I came into the discussion.

[JiriHrdina]

A good friend went back to university in his mid 30's. He did not get ANY financial support from his parents nor was he sucking on thier teet. He owned his own home and took in roomates to help offset the cost of his education. He was also able to return to his former position in the company during the summer months. It can be done.


Yup I did it. I worked my ass off at 2 jobs while returning to school. And honestly it wasn't even that hard. You just need to be able to manage your time well.

[Phanuthier]

Yup I did it. I worked my ass off at 2 jobs while returning to school. And honestly it wasn't even that hard. You just need to be able to manage your time well.
Didn't you get exhausted and sometimes just want to go home, take a night off and watch some TV? Go out to dinner or drinks with friends, and not feel guilty that you've been there for 2 hours and you really should get something done?

I'm not even working, but when I look at my friends who are out there working and go on spontaneous trips to Las Vegas or Cuba or Mexico, or skiing every other weekend or things like that... and I'm at home Friday night doing homework so I can take a few hours off on Saturday... like I said, I don't understand why someone would want to go back to school unless they would really, really enjoy doing what they were studying. (Which, in my case, I'm not sure if I enjoy it that much.)

[driveway]

I think when it comes to making career-related choices in your mid 30's money should be a secondary consideration. If money is still the driving force in your life at that age, there's probably something wrong with you at a genetic level.

The best advice I ever got about work and life came from my Mother (who worked her tail off at the executive level around Calgary and is currently enjoying her retirement in Germany), she said:

"Figure out what you love to do, then figure out how to get paid for doing it."

Go for it, Thor!

[JiriHrdina]

Didn't you get exhausted and sometimes just want to go home, take a night off and watch some TV? Go out to dinner or drinks with friends, and not feel guilty that you've been there for 2 hours and you really should get something done?


Well I had been out in the workforce for about 10 years doing all that stuff and frankly it got boring. The only thing that was truly difficult is that I felt like I wasn't very dependable for my friends and family because I was rarely around.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I know for me, it felt like 75% of my undergrad classes were completely useless and I got next to nothing out of it.

Probably depends on what you take.

My broad generalization based on talking with students at university would be that the students who go there and take something their parents help persuade them to take (usually something "practical" like management, engineering or business or what have you) or something they think will get them a profitable career usually don't enjoy it as much as the students who go there to take something they enjoy or the students who switch out of their original plan after finding a more interesting major.

Of course I'm biased. I'd probably kill myself if I took accounting or management or something like that. On the other hand I find science and humanities fascinating.

People need to branch out at university. Take a bunch of a different types of courses and see what you like. Most departments at university aren't really like I thought they would be. Philosophy, Psych, etc were substantially different from my expectations. I think a lot of people find that their major isn't quite what they thought but too many are scared or financially prohibited from trying other things and switching majors.

[driveway]

I highly recommend taking an Intro to Women's Studies class as an option. Not only will you be the only guy in the room, but it can be a really interesting and rewarding class.

Also, there's nothing more fun than pulling back a rabid young feminists' chair for her, or opening the door for her.

[JerzeeGirl]

Also, will you punch any science student you meet that says they are pre-med? There is no such thing in Calgary and I hate all those stupid kids.

Am I the only one who read this and heard in the back of their minds, "Damn kids....get off my lawn!!!" with a cane wave thrown in? LOL

Anyways, back on topic....congrats Thor on making this choice - sounds like it's something you and your friend really enjoy for the sake of the topic - not solely as part of a financial goal.

I've gone back and taken classes purely to aid my job and not enjoyed it and that really does reflect in the grades at times (I mean, really, who gets excited about Cost Accounting?!?!?! :bleh:)

Wish I were in a similar position to yourself and willing to just do it, I'd love to explore a completely different career path but am unwilling to sacrifice my job/lifestyle at the moment so I admire your choice even more as you are clearly willing to make the sacrifice of your time & money to follow something you really desire!

[Kybosh]

Am I the only one who read this and heard in the back of their minds, "Damn kids....get off my lawn!!!" with a cane wave thrown in? LOL


Haha, ya I'm a bit of a disgruntled educator (I'm done teaching now though). I've taught so many students over the years and the bioscience kids are second only to engineers in being supremely irritating.

[wpgflamesfan]

Also, will you punch any science student you meet that says they are pre-med? There is no such thing in Calgary and I hate all those stupid kids.

Ahh yes the pre-meds. These people piss me off to know end. My buddy was asking this girl what degree she was taking. She replied that she wanted to get into med school so she was doing her pre med. I told her that I did know they let people with made up degrees into med school. Needless to say she wasn't too impressed.

[bcb]

Of the 100 med students U of C takes in each year, something like 2 have less than a bachelor's degree. If it's any consolation, any student coming into university with hopes of entering Med school after two years are generally put in their place by the time the first marks come out in January

[longsuffering]

I did it - and it was the best decision I ever made. Not only did it put me on the right career path but I really enjoyed school the second time around. There was some culture shock at first, but after it wore off it was fantastic.

I'm sure you meant to wirte "I thought it was the best decision I ever made."

Surely after reading DESS's insightful posts you've come to see the error of your ways.

[longsuffering]

- don't worry about the cost, just do what you love (apparently CPers don't watch the news and don't know this is the attitude that has brought financial ruin to the world's doorstep)



Doing what you love brought financial ruin to the world's doorstep? You'd better let the various world economic leaders know. Seems to me they thought problems in the credit markets created most of the problems.

But at least we know what you do for a living. You're obviously a leading economist.

Seriously though, I'm guessing you're an accountant (as am I). Unfortunately you are one of the accountants who think every life decision can and should be made based on ROR.

Wake up man, there are intangibles in life.

[wooohooo]

Well I think it's a great decision to go back to school. I'm in my 3rd year of science doing a Bsc at the UA.

Yeah, there is that 'old-guy' in 2 of my classes who asks about 15 questions PER lecture. Yes. We all hate him.
But that said, there are some other old people who don't really say anything, and we treat them as anyone else. I think it's moreso the fact of asking many, many, many questions in class that doesn't pertain to the lecture material at all.

If there is anything I learned, education is definately worth it. Yeah, my first two years were a drag, but now that i'm specialzing in things I really enjoy, I actually wake up early to study! :bag: As they say, your first two years are ALWAYS the hardest. Suck it up and your last two will be fun.

For people who say what's the point? You get to learn things not too many get the chance to do. It changes your perspective on how things operate and your mentality of thinking... something only education can do.

As for good classes to take, my favorites have been Microbiology (lab really blows though), Pharmacology, Neurobiology, Animal/Human physiology. Those pertain most to my life and I think it's 'hella interesting'

Another intersting one I'm taking now is Modern physics. So Einstein's theories of relativity etc. Fascinating, but a little difficult with the concepts.


Classes that I've wanted to shoot myself in:
Cell biology, Biol 108 (not sure what it's called ) has to do with Phylems and all that boring stuff. Elementary physics.
Chemistry. The Labs are insane. 3-4 hours of your life every week wasted, and it's hard as hell.

[wooohooo]

As for what people say about money being a big cost. Yes, your cushy job is nice. But learning something in school, then getting a job that relates to it is even sweeter. Granted, not all jobs are like that but in sciences, alot do.

If you're thinking of doing part time school, you can definately get a job and do school. Just prepare to take time off work during finals.
It's even doable with full time school. Just you won't have a life outside work and school. But hey, it's worth it!

[Two Fivenagame]

I wanted to bump a great thread that I found very helpful in making my decision to return to school in my early thirties. (so glad dess is gone btw)

I found an applied degree program at MRC that seamed very interesting and i attended an info session which made things sound even better.

Attending student orientation (yesterday) was quiet a relief. At 31 i'm far from the oldest person there and met several really cool mature students with the same fears/concerns as i have including:

-debt load
-finding adequate part-time employment
-does my brain still work?
-can i manage school and work?

Any tips and tricks would be greatly appreciated.

P.S The girls to guys ratio at MRC is 2:1

[Cain]

I have a degree in biology. Super fun degree, mostly women in the classes...all around I had a great time. However, with just a biology degree I had a bit of an issue finding employment. I was looking pretty hard when the economy wasn't at a high point, but I eventually gave up and I am back in university now doing yet another degree as well.

I don't regret it, I find biology very interesting and fun, but part of me wonders about doing a more practical (in the finding a job sense) degree the first time round. Hopefully this second one is a bit better!

[peter12]

I really think it should boil down to how you analyze the opportunity costs. Basically, is the time spent worth the income lost? If you are really into it, then absolutely go for it. So many people go through post-secondary just because they think it is "something they have to do," instead of pursuing what they really love.

I imagine you are in the latter group, and university is probably the place for you.

[Flames89]

I am so jealous. And I like my job.
But man. University is a wonderful land.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

I liked school so much I never left. ;)

But in all seriousness, guess that means you're not staying in Reykjavik. Did Iceland finally drink you under the table?

[blankall]

I also have a bio degree. I worked in genetics for a year before I went back to school and became a lawyer. I now do a lot of personal injury cases where I use my bio background all the time. You'd also be suprised at how similar scientific and legal writing skills are.

As for which specialty: the thing with biology is that you have to be really passionate about what you are doing to enjoy it. The money isn't great (well not at first anyways), and the work will be a huge drag if you are not enjoying it as it can be repetitive. So without that infusion of imagination that comes with passion, you will end up torturing yourself.

Take a variety of bio courses and find out what you like most. If it's field work go into ecology or marine/vertebrate biology of some kind. Some people prefer social policy type stuff, in which case a masters in a field like pathogens is probably the way to go. Other people really like the lab and conceptual work, in which case genetics might be the way to go.

The bad news is you will probably require a post grad degree to get a decent job in a specialized field. The good news is that get paid to do a masters in the field of biology (not a lot, but a usually enough to squeak by).

[MrMastodonFarm]

P.S The girls to guys ratio at MRU is 2:1

Fixed. and girls at MRU tend to love getting boned.

[Thor]

I liked school so much I never left. ;)

But in all seriousness, guess that means you're not staying in Reykjavik. Did Iceland finally drink you under the table?

Oh this was a old bump lol.

I'm still in Iceland, in fact I made a couple of big decisions when thinking about going back to school. One was to sell my house, drop everything and move back home to Iceland; I have a big family and I was the last one living in Calgary as everyone else moved back here.

The next was to be somewhat practical about my education; I LOVE science and wanted to go back and get a degree in biology. However after speaking to a few friends in the field, I decided to continue doing what I have been these last 5 years, reading a science book a month at least. But I did change my careerpath 180, left sales/marketing and went to do something I've always loved, working as a computer guy :)

Since coming back to Iceland 1 year ago I have garnered a whole slew of Microsoft and Cisco certifications, something that I've immensely enjoyed and done extremely well at. I've always been great with computers but for some reason I never went that route in University when I was younger. As a mid 30's student I'm LOVING being back in school.

I haven't been this happy about my line of work in a long time, now its just to get a new job and continue the certifications with work, since thats they key in this industry, experience and knowledge.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Oh this was a old bump lol.

I'm still in Iceland, in fact I made a couple of big decisions when thinking about going back to school. One was to sell my house, drop everything and move back home to Iceland; I have a big family and I was the last one living in Calgary as everyone else moved back here.

The next was to be somewhat practical about my education; I LOVE science and wanted to go back and get a degree in biology. However after speaking to a few friends in the field, I decided to continue doing what I have been these last 5 years, reading a science book a month at least. But I did change my careerpath 180, left sales/marketing and went to do something I've always loved, working as a computer guy :)

Since coming back to Iceland 1 year ago I have garnered a whole slew of Microsoft and Cisco certifications, something that I've immensely enjoyed and done extremely well at. I've always been great with computers but for some reason I never went that route in University when I was younger. As a mid 30's student I'm LOVING being back in school.

I haven't been this happy about my line of work in a long time, now its just to get a new job and continue the certifications with work, since thats they key in this industry, experience and knowledge.


Heh. Guess I should really look at the dates on posts, huh.

Well, you certainly can't complain about where you live. Reykjavik is one of the best cities in the world (in my completely unbiased opinion).

[Kybosh]

Oh this was a old bump lol.

I'm still in Iceland, in fact I made a couple of big decisions when thinking about going back to school. One was to sell my house, drop everything and move back home to Iceland; I have a big family and I was the last one living in Calgary as everyone else moved back here.

The next was to be somewhat practical about my education; I LOVE science and wanted to go back and get a degree in biology. However after speaking to a few friends in the field, I decided to continue doing what I have been these last 5 years, reading a science book a month at least. But I did change my careerpath 180, left sales/marketing and went to do something I've always loved, working as a computer guy :)

Since coming back to Iceland 1 year ago I have garnered a whole slew of Microsoft and Cisco certifications, something that I've immensely enjoyed and done extremely well at. I've always been great with computers but for some reason I never went that route in University when I was younger. As a mid 30's student I'm LOVING being back in school.

I haven't been this happy about my line of work in a long time, now its just to get a new job and continue the certifications with work, since thats they key in this industry, experience and knowledge.

Clearly you're really into Science and Technology. I'm sure that you already know these things, but for others who are interested:

1) Check out your local University or College or Tech. institute. They always host public seminars on many interesting and relevant issues. You just have to put in a little effort to get included on the newsletters. I find people complain a lot about the UofC and UofA (primarily undergrads it seems) but both of these schools are quite well known in research circles.

2) Typically, there are off-shoot organizations that get together and host forums at pubs and what not. In Calgary, we have the Science cafe once in a while at the Unicorn (at least it was at the Unicorn the last time I went).

I honestly don't know what the situation is like in Iceland, but Reyjkjavik is a pretty progressive place and I would be shocked if you couldn't find some general interest science events in town.

[Ashartus]

One good option these days is online degrees/diplomas. I wouldn't try to do an entire bachelor's degree online (I'm not sure that's even an option yet at reputable universities), but for after-degrees, advanced diplomas, or continuing education they're a great option. You need to be fairly motivated and self-directed to do it that way, but a well-designed online course from a decent university can be every bit as good as a traditional lecture-based course and it's a lot easier to fit a program like that around a job and family.

[troutman]

P.S The girls to guys ratio at MRC is 2:1

Nursing is 100:1

[Domoic]

I have a degree in biology. However, with just a biology degree I had a bit of an issue finding employment. I was looking pretty hard when the economy wasn't at a high point, but I eventually gave up and I am back in university now doing yet another degree as well.

I don't regret it, I find biology very interesting and fun, but part of me wonders about doing a more practical (in the finding a job sense) degree the first time round. Hopefully this second one is a bit better!

I also have a bio degree. I worked in genetics for a year before I went back to school and became a lawyer. I now do a lot of personal injury cases where I use my bio background all the time. You'd also be suprised at how similar scientific and legal writing skills are.

he bad news is you will probably require a post grad degree to get a decent job in a specialized field. The good news is that get paid to do a masters in the field of biology (not a lot, but a usually enough to squeak by).

I agree with these posts as it dove tails with my experience.

I have a degree in biology. Turned into a PhD in neuropharmacology. Great for a scientist, but I did not want to work in a lab all my life.

So I did a MBA and - holy cow - career opportunities opened up like crazy.

Now I work for a hedge fund in NYC that specializes in investing in pharmaceutical and biotechnology companies. Utilizes my academic background and the compensation is very good.

But it did not come cheap - I spent 10 years in university (4 for BSc + 5 for PhD + 1 for MBA).

[Kybosh]

I agree with these posts as it dove tails with my experience.

I have a degree in biology. Turned into a PhD in neuropharmacology. Great for a scientist, but I did not want to work in a lab all my life.

So I did a MBA and - holy cow - career opportunities opened up like crazy.

Now I work for a hedge fund in NYC that specializes in investing in pharmaceutical and biotechnology companies. Utilizes my academic background and the compensation is very good.

But it did not come cheap - I spent 10 years in university (4 for BSc + 5 for PhD + 1 for MBA).

Testify. You and I sound eerily similar, the only difference is I haven't done an MBA (yet) and, despite some potentials, I wasn't especially excited about picking up and moving to NYC.