Insane Quebec Seperatists want a long recession

[CaptainCrunch]

These people need to get over themselves and their own stupidity

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090222.wbattle23/BNStory/National/home

[Ford Prefect]

They should just go ahead and separate then. That oughta give them a long enough recession to satisfy them.

[fredr123]

Step 1: Separate from Canada
Step 2:
Step 3: No more recession for Quebeckers

[browna]

Basing all those plans on a 4-5-10 year recession? Sounds like their getting their advice from same idiots who said in Summer '08 that the Canadian $ was going up to $1.50=$1US, and Oil was going to touch 200$ a barrel.

[Raekwon]

Well I was always told if I had nothing nice to say not to say anything at all . . . . . .

[fotze]

I just skimmed but I didn't see where they wanted the recession to last 10 years, just that they believed it would. I don't think its out of the realm of possibility. what am I missing?

[Resolute 14]

They should just go ahead and separate then. That oughta give them a long enough recession to satisfy them.

God, no kidding eh?

Quebec separatists are like the welfare bum who whines about the government even as that same government supports their lazy behinds.

If it wasnt for the fact that a lot of good people would be seriously harmed by it, I'd love to just see Quebec go it on its own and see how they react when suddenly, Canada is no longer there to give them billions of dollars a year.

[Agamemnon]

“All the scenarios are on the table in light of the difficulties many are anticipating,” Mr. Paquin said. “If the recession is short, as the Bank of Canada predicts, then the situation may not change much. But if it lasts four or five years and unemployment figures climb to 15 per cent, then everything is on the table. And if the recession, as some believe, lasts 10 years or longer, Quebec [as a province] just won't have the margin of manoeuvre to deal with it.”

Sounds like they're saying if a recession lasts several years then they're chances of acheiving their goals are increased. Oooooohhhh, those terrible baby-eaters! The only good Separatist... is a DEAD Separatist!

[Dion]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_suK0IRLbQbE/STsTWFgpVrI/AAAAAAAAF4w/afVYKy1zlRA/s320/separate-quebec.jpg

[pepper24]

I've never understood economically how seperating would help Quebec. What's their industry? What's their trading advantage? I still cannot get answers to those questions. It's easy to use a downturn to spread your message and convert the weak but Quebec on it's own is worse off than being with Canada in a good or bad market.

[Thunderball]

I've never understood economically how seperating would help Quebec. What's their industry? What's their trading advantage? I still cannot get answers to those questions. It's easy to use a downturn to spread your message and convert the weak but Quebec on it's own is worse off than being with Canada in a good or bad market.

I've never heard a compelling argument for Quebec separatism on economic grounds, probably because such grounds simply do not exist.

However, there are compelling arguments on historical, political, cultural and linguistic grounds. Whether or not those arguments trump the fact that a Sovereign Quebec would be significantly weaker economically and in terms of foreign relations is anyone's guess.

[Daradon]

Heh Fredr hit it on the head, I was going to write something like that.

Man I'm getting tired about hearing about this. When there was that period of die down in seperation talk after Quebec was given distinct society 'nation within a nation' status I was like, 'good, thanks. It's not exactly fair but I don't care, as long as it fixes things I'm ok with that.' But then talk started ramping up again the last year or two and my fears, along with most others in the rest of Canada, came true. There's not much that we can give or declare to Quebec that will stop this talk.

The stupid thing is, I believe, that tough talk like this from those calling for seperation, is more a political power play than anything. I can't imagine there are many unless they are really blinded by ideology, that really believe Quebec is better outside of Canada. I mean their provoncial economy is one of the worst is it not? The whole idea is just so stupid.

I would really like Stephen Harper to take a tough stand now. Say what no Prime Miister has said. That if they leave, then they LEAVE. No getting to use our currency or other institutions of ours. Maybe that will get them thinking about what leaving Canada might really be about. Harper has already made more concessions and overturers than any PM since the language laws were enacted. It's time to stop coddling these seperatists and start playing hard ball with them. If they wanna be part of the family, great, we'd love that. But stop blackmailing the rest of the country.

As a little aside, I have heard that seperatist movements among younger people are slowing though, and that Qebec, even with all the alk comig out of it, is more nationalistic (for Canada) than it has been in a long time. That obviously would be a great sign. Doesn anyone know if that is true?

[GreenTeaFrapp]

I've never understood economically how seperating would help Quebec. What's their industry? What's their trading advantage? I still cannot get answers to those questions. It's easy to use a downturn to spread your message and convert the weak but Quebec on it's own is worse off than being with Canada in a good or bad market.

They've got a ton of natural resources, although most are in the north where a lot of land has native claim on it, including huge hydro capabilities. They also produce a lot of beer, cheese, circus freaks and strippers.

[metal_geek]

Quebec is one of the few provinces that could separate and have a viable economy. It has basically endless supplies of hydro electric power as an export. Every known mineral in abundance, ocean access, fishery, and farming just to name a few. That being said, I don't think either province would be as well off on it's own as it is a part of the country.

If Quebec were to seperate, I could see it ending up a part of another country. France, EU member, or the 53rd state...

[peter12]

I've never heard a compelling argument for Quebec separatism on economic grounds, probably because such grounds simply do not exist.

However, there are compelling arguments on historical, political, cultural and linguistic grounds. Whether or not those arguments trump the fact that a Sovereign Quebec would be significantly weaker economically and in terms of foreign relations is anyone's guess.

Personally, I've never been able to get over the bitter hint of nationalist racism that simmers below the patriotic Quebecker's visage whenever these arguments arise.

[longsuffering]

They've got a ton of natural resources, although most are in the north where a lot of land has native claim on it, including huge hydro capabilities. They also produce a lot of beer, cheese, circus freaks and strippers.

I like the idea that the Federal Government insist that the Indians (sorry for the non-PC term) be given the same right to self determination as Quebecers are, meaning that if/when Quebec votes over separation, the Indians be given a choice to remain (with their lands) in Canada or to separate with Quebec.

[peter12]

Quebec is one of the few provinces that could separate and have a viable economy. It has basically endless supplies of hydro electric power as an export. Every known mineral in abundance, ocean access, fishery, and farming just to name a few. That being said, I don't think either province would be as well off on it's own as it is a part of the country.

If Quebec were to seperate, I could see it ending up a part of another country. France, EU member, or the 53rd state...

France doesn't want a part of it. Neither does the EU. Why would the USA want to have anything to do with the most anti-American province in Canada?

Why would Canada want to continue economic relations with any other part of Quebec than Montreal?

It'd be an economic disaster.

[longsuffering]

Quebec is one of the few provinces that could separate and have a viable economy. It has basically endless supplies of hydro electric power as an export. Every known mineral in abundance, ocean access, fishery, and farming just to name a few. That being said, I don't think either province would be as well off on it's own as it is a part of the country.

If Quebec were to seperate, I could see it ending up a part of another country. France, EU member, or the 53rd state...

And yet they are a 'have-not' province today.

[ikaris]

Quebec is one of the few provinces that could separate and have a viable economy. It has basically endless supplies of hydro electric power as an export. Every known mineral in abundance, ocean access, fishery, and farming just to name a few. That being said, I don't think either province would be as well off on it's own as it is a part of the country.

If Quebec were to seperate, I could see it ending up a part of another country. France, EU member, or the 53rd state...

It's not quite so simple. If Quebec separates, they also will be taking their part of the national debt.

As well, northern Quebec with all the minerals would need to have their own referendum as to the legitimacy of separating. I sincerely doubt the first nations communities would want to be apart of a separate Quebec.

[Thunderball]

Personally, I've never been able to get over the bitter hint of nationalist racism that simmers below the patriotic Quebecker's visage whenever these arguments arise.

Its most "un-canadian" to be sure, but I'm not sure I'd say their nationalism is racist, its simply threatened by Canadian multiculturalism and they don't like that and make no concessions on it.

Most proud cultures would react the same, in fact, many are worse and their cultures aren't even threatened by state multiculturalism, like Japan and Denmark for instance.

[Thunderball]

France doesn't want a part of it. Neither does the EU. Why would the USA want to have anything to do with the most anti-American province in Canada?

Why would Canada want to continue economic relations with any other part of Quebec than Montreal?

It'd be an economic disaster.

I agree with you, but to play devil's advocate on some of these points.

France claims they don't care, but sure enough they are usually around to stir up trouble. Furthermore, they may say they want nothing to do with them now, because saying otherwise would be a casus belli (yeah, right, but still...) or at very least a massive diplomatic insult against Canada. But a sovereign Quebec... that's now a different story with different rules.

That argument goes the same for the EU. I suspect the EU would ignore them though.

The US is a different angle. Quebec would be a threat to them unchecked, how better to keep them under control, then to make them a protectorate, like Puerto Rico.

Canada could likely try to step in the same as the US in that regard. Canada and Quebec would have to maintain decent relations for obvious reasons... for one, our capital would be a bordertown, with half of its former boroughs in a foreign land... another, we would both rely on the St. Lawrence Seaway, and both would have legitimate claim to it.

One thing can not be understated, it would be a total political cluster###### and an economic nightmare.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

If Quebec were to seperate, they would occupy Labrador and claim it as part of Quebec. We would then be forced to go to war and conquer all of Quebec and once again it will be part of Canada.

[peter12]

Its most "un-canadian" to be sure, but I'm not sure I'd say their nationalism is racist, its simply threatened by Canadian multiculturalism and they don't like that and make no concessions on it.

Most proud cultures would react the same, in fact, many are worse and their cultures aren't even threatened by state multiculturalism, like Japan and Denmark for instance.

I would argue that most "proud cultures" are very racist at their heart. I say that and I'm a Dane. Danes are so racist.

There's also a difference between being proud enough of your culture to want to share it freely with others and enacting tyrannical legislation (like the Sign Law) to protect your increasingly isolated culture.

[ikaris]

Its most "un-canadian" to be sure, but I'm not sure I'd say their nationalism is racist, its simply threatened by Canadian multiculturalism and they don't like that and make no concessions on it.

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761588463/jacques_parizeau.html

Immediately after the results became clear, Parizeau blamed his narrow loss on what he referred to as “money and the ethnic vote.”

Sorry, but I don't that it is a stretch to think that their "nationalism" is racist as displayed by their previous remarkable leader.

[peter12]

I agree with you, but to play devil's advocate on some of these points.

France claims they don't care, but sure enough they are usually around to stir up trouble. Furthermore, they may say they want nothing to do with them now, because saying otherwise would be a casus belli (yeah, right, but still...) or at very least a massive diplomatic insult against Canada. But a sovereign Quebec... that's now a different story with different rules.

That argument goes the same for the EU. I suspect the EU would ignore them though.

The US is a different angle. Quebec would be a threat to them unchecked, how better to keep them under control, then to make them a protectorate, like Puerto Rico.

Canada could likely try to step in the same as the US in that regard. Canada and Quebec would have to maintain decent relations for obvious reasons... for one, our capital would be a bordertown, with half of its former boroughs in a foreign land... another, we would both rely on the St. Lawrence Seaway, and both would have legitimate claim to it.

One thing can not be understated, it would be a total political cluster###### and an economic nightmare.

But that's why it would never happen. The Clarity Act was ham-handed, but it essentially sets term for separation. A failure to disobey those terms would, in my mind, be an act of sedition and subject to military intervention by Canada.

It's fairly simple to see how an actual separation would proceed. Canada gets Montreal and co-sovereignty of the St. Lawrence. The aboriginal bands get the North and the leftovers for the separatists are basically Quebec City and hick-town Quebec.

[Thunderball]

I would argue that most "proud cultures" are very racist at their heart. I say that and I'm a Dane. Danes are so racist.

There's also a difference between being proud enough of your culture to want to share it freely with others and enacting tyrannical legislation (like the Sign Law) to protect your increasingly isolated culture.

I agree, but I don't think racism is quite the right term. Intolerance might be better.

As for the sign law, one could argue that the language laws in Canada are by definition tyrannical legislation, to try to forcibly manufacture concensus (and actually, an act intended to assimilate Quebec and Anglo Canada)

Provinces should have had the right to choose. In places like New Brunswick, it makes more sense. In places like BC, Mandarin might make a better candidate as a second language.

[peter12]

I agree, but I don't think racism is quite the right term. Intolerance might be better.

As for the sign law, one could argue that the language laws in Canada are by definition tyrannical legislation, to try to forcibly manufacture concensus (and actually, an act intended to assimilate Quebec and Anglo Canada)

Provinces should have had the right to choose. In places like New Brunswick, it makes more sense. In places like BC, Mandarin might make a better candidate as a second language.

Absolutely, I agree.

[Thunderball]

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761588463/jacques_parizeau.html

Immediately after the results became clear, Parizeau blamed his narrow loss on what he referred to as “money and the ethnic vote.”

Sorry, but I don't that it is a stretch to think that their "nationalism" is racist as displayed by their previous remarkable leader.

I reiterate they are intolerant by Canadian standards, but racism and intolerance aren't the same.

He was largely right though. Ethnic voters didn't want to leave Canada.

[Thunderball]

But that's why it would never happen. The Clarity Act was ham-handed, but it essentially sets term for separation. A failure to disobey those terms would, in my mind, be an act of sedition and subject to military intervention by Canada.

It's fairly simple to see how an actual separation would proceed. Canada gets Montreal and co-sovereignty of the St. Lawrence. The aboriginal bands get the North and the leftovers for the separatists are basically Quebec City and hick-town Quebec.

Agreed mostly. I'm not sure they could really cut up the province like that. Especially if there are portions and suburbs of Montreal, Hull and Gatineau (for instance) that want to separate and others to stay. The Indian bands and the north would be a different story, since they were granted to Quebec by Canada. St. Lawrence would definitely be co-owned, which is why a measure of cordial relations would be a must.

[Azure]

We should let them separate, and then go to war and claim back Quebec minus all the idiot separatists.

[Thunderball]

We should let them separate, and then go to war and claim back Quebec minus all the idiot separatists.

Of course, with most of our functional equipment in Afghanistan, and a handful of soldiers left here, victory is far from assured.

I should add, I think most Separatists are a bunch of whiny pricks too stupid to actually achieve their goal properly, but I sympathize with their ideal. Quebec really is a totally different culture, despite Canada's attempts to water it down.