Giants trade JD Watt to the Red Deer Rebels

[Reggie Dunlop]

WHL.ca (http://www.whl.ca/headlines/?id=7122&showToc=1)

Interesting.

Perhaps the plan to for Watt to play overage rather than turn pro right away. If so, Brent takes him under his wing on Darryl's behalf.

[Tilley]

Very interesting. This is eerily similar to Cam Cunning's foray into the AHL. He participated in the full AHL camp and made the team but 20 games into the season you could tell he wasn't ready. He was sent to Red Deer, got a ton of confidence and returned to the Knights late in the season a different player.

Even though Watt was a leading goal scorer for Vancouver this might be a good opportunity to round out his game and get more disciplined. Brent isn't going to allow the foolish penalties. Depending on who leaves the Rebels (Hanzal/Starkov), if Watt ends up in Red Deer he may get a chance to be the #1 triggerman.

[Reggie Dunlop]

And, like Cunning, returning to junior was preferable to going to the ECHL from a developmental standpoint.

Could merely be a contingency plan at this point. Hence the conditional draft pick part of the deal.

[Sylvanfan]

Interesting for sure. Theres been speculation around that there may not be room on the same team for Prust and Watt. So should Prust fail to crack the big club, perhaps it is a contingency plan for a guy like Watt to go back to Junior. Physically it would seem Watt would be able to move into pro level hockey and handle it....but would he be prepared for the mental rigors of the game? Something Brent Sutter may be able to help him with.

[Drunk Skunk]

So, if I am to understand correctly, a player can play in the AHL and still get sent back to juniors, despite playing pro?

[Bobblehead]

I find it strange that even though the Flames own the Hitmen, it is the Sutter connection in Red Deer that is being utilized by Darryl. I understand that he would trust his brother the most, but it does appear to be a stange situation all the way around. Almost bordering on conflict of interest, although it isn't like one team is tanking for the benefit of another.

Perhaps these possibilities were (Cunning and now Watt) were presented to the Hitmen the they weren't interested, or perhaps that would have been a direct conflict of interest.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Interesting for sure. Theres been speculation around that there may not be room on the same team for Prust and Watt. So should Prust fail to crack the big club, perhaps it is a contingency plan for a guy like Watt to go back to Junior. Physically it would seem Watt would be able to move into pro level hockey and handle it....but would he be prepared for the mental rigors of the game? Something Brent Sutter may be able to help him with.

Two abrasive pests on the same squad? Nah, Sutter wouldn't have any of that. ;)

If anything, it's more likely the Flames are interested in Watt's Power Forward potential. Although I'm not sure what Watt has left to prove in the WHL. Maturity issues? Could be.

[Reggie Dunlop]

I find it strange that even though the Flames own the Hitmen, it is the Sutter connection in Red Deer that is being utilized by Darryl. I understand that he would trust his brother the most, but it does appear to be a stange situation all the way around. Almost bordering on conflict of interest, although it isn't like one team is tanking for the benefit of another.

Perhaps these possibilities were (Cunning and now Watt) were presented to the Hitmen the they weren't interested, or perhaps that would have been a direct conflict of interest.

Don't forget the Aaron Marvin rights transfer as well.

Brent Krahn was a Hitman and under contract to the Flames. Granted that was under a previous regime, so I don't think conflict of interest was an issue.

Also, I don't think Sutter has issues with Kelly Kisio -- and certainly none with Dave Lowry. Maybe he just can get his way with his little brother more? Kisio doesn't respond to threats of noogies?

[ken0042]

So, if I am to understand correctly, a player can play in the AHL and still get sent back to juniors, despite playing pro?

My understanding is that the WHL (and the rest of the CHL) is considered to be pro; as the players receive a meager salary still.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Vancouver Province (http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/sports/story.html?id=c5d44d0a-d696-48b0-9544-f7a11ff1b23f)

Seems the Giants originally protected Watt in the WHL expansion draft, but still had too many overagers going into next season. The Rebels give Watt a place to play if he doesn't crack the QC Flames.

[Azure]

My understanding is that the WHL (and the rest of the CHL) is considered to be pro; as the players receive a meager salary still.

Are you sure?

CHL players earn some sort of salary?

Or am I misunderstanding you?

[Bobblehead]

Are you sure?

CHL players earn some sort of salary?

Or am I misunderstanding you?

I know the NCAA considers Major Junior A as professional. Players have very few hours that they can play/practice witha Junior team before they are ineligible.

[Vulcan]

So, if I am to understand correctly, a player can play in the AHL and still get sent back to juniors, despite playing pro?

The way I understand it, Junior teams are allowed two overage [20yr. old] players. So being sent down to junior after playing in the AHL only happens the odd time. Once a junior player is drafted he can play for his junior team or in the NHL until he is twenty. He can't play in the AHL until he's 20. This is to protect the CHL junior teams from losing some of their best players, while letting the very best move on to the NHL.

In Canada major junior players are still considered amateur as they only get a small amount of money, call it a living allowance, but the American colleges don't agree.

[STeeLy]

The way I understand it, Junior teams are allowed two overage [20yr. old] players.

I vaguely remember going to a Tigers vs Hitmen game couple years ago and they had three overagers. Though I may be wrong.

[ken0042]

In Canada major junior players are still considered amateur as they only get a small amount of money, call it a living allowance, but the American colleges don't agree.

I think Vulcan hit it right on the head. The number in my head was ~$2000 per month (which works out to $16K in an 8 month season) which is pretty much not more than some funds to cover living expenses. The only site I can find to confirm this is this one; however it appears to be quite out of date: http://www.hockeyzoneplus.com/$minor_e.htm

[moon]

I vaguely remember going to a Tigers vs Hitmen game couple years ago and they had three overagers. Though I may be wrong.

You are right they are allowed Three overagers. They are also only allowed two Euros. Perhaps that is where the confusion came from.

[Sylvanfan]

I think expansion teams can carry as many as 5 - 20 year old players in their inaugaral season. Usually the league decides on this before hand, but they usually let expansion teams have a couple extra over agers so that they can be competitive. IIRC a team can start the season with more of them, but you can only dress 3 per night, you have until a certain day a month into the season or so to declare who your 20 year old players are going to be or you have to drop them from your roster.

I remember back in 1990 the Blazers had a fellow named Joe Middlestad that they had to cut because they had 3 other 20 year old guys who all had been drafted by NHL teams. They cut this Middlestad guy and then a week or so later traded Dean Malkoc so they could add Middlestad back to the team. Another situation occured in like 1994 where a team from Quebec had a player named Christian Dube playing for them, and at the time Quebec had a different rule from the CHL in regards to over age players. It was challenged whether Dube was eligible for the Memorial Cup or not, and his team ended up winning the challenge in the end.

[Resolute 14]

You are right they are allowed Three overagers. They are also only allowed two Euros. Perhaps that is where the confusion came from.

Soon to be down to one Euro, if not this season than next, iirc. Though with the restrictions being placed on 16 year olds, I would just as soon the WHL increased both the number of Euro spots and over age spots to 3 and 4 respectively.

[Lunatik]

And, like Cunning, returning to junior was preferable to going to the ECHL from a developmental standpoint.

Could merely be a contingency plan at this point. Hence the conditional draft pick part of the deal.i think the latter is the case... i remember when my local WHL team acquired Marian Hossa in the summer before what woul dhave been his overage season... needless to say he never played a game here... but teams in teh dub can only have "x" amount of overagers... and maybe the Giants were close to that mark already