Israel and Lebanon now fighting

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Insightful :rolleyes: Although...on this one thing, I'll finally agree with you.

The concept of "in control" is kind of lost already, though. If this thing settles down in the next couple of days/weeks...back to the status quo of (say) a couple of months ago...then things are still largely out of control. Hezbollah will still control S. Lebanon, and the "legitimate" leader of Lebanon has now come out and accused Israel of "cruel retaliation" or something to that effect. They're not going to be at a negotiating table anytime soon.

On the other hand, if this goes the distance and Israel invades and occupies Lebanon, it's even more out of control.

I.e./ "The region is ****ed!"

Okay, being a little more serious about it this time, I think we are indeed at a tipping point. I think the situation is becoming more dire on both sides. I think the Lebanese government knows they cannot control Hezbollah and have communicated it that way to the Israelis. Hezbollah was long ago expected to fall in with the Lebanese armed services, but resisted, continuing to operate independently. I think Israel has blamed the government hoping they would be able to appeal to Hezbollah one way or the other. I feel this has only hardened the resolve of the "freedom fighters"/"terrorist organization"/"militia".

I think Israel is now realizing they pushed in the majority of their chips and don't have the hand to win the game in the fashion they hoped. They now have to re-evaluate and make sure they come out of this looking like they were going in with the right intentions. The only solution may be all out war just to save face. How else is Israel going to explain taking out all that key infrastructure? I think the only way Israel can come out of this clean is to invade and occupy.

How that will play out in the rest of the region is unclear at this time. IMO, Iran and Syria have been way too quiet. Egypt concerns me as well. When these players are not being hread from in such an important matter to regional stability, that tells me something is up. These three parties could be holding off to see what the Israeli's next move is. Any way you look at it, Israel is going to come out of this looking pretty bad and responsible for a gross over reaction in attacking civilian infrastructure targets. The next move is theirs, and I think Israel is wondering what they can do to come out of this with the least amount of damage.

One thing that does concern me greatly, is the ex-patriots being shipped out. That's a clear indicator that other governments see this as getting uglier in the immediate, and it lasting for a while. I can't see a country recovering their ex-patriots without having an idea where this was headed. At this point, I would think this is going to head in the wrong direction in the next few days based on the expedited schedule for getting the citizens of other countries out of the region. My advice to anyone i the region. Duck and cover.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Ya well I am not going to lose my job and risk criminal charges by posting classified material to prove or disprove your points.

You need a security clearance to be in daycare these days? Wow. The Canadian government has gone hardcore under Harper!

[HOZ]

Have to say I am enjoying Lanny's decent into madness. Like watching a carwreck in slow motion. Keep screaming stop but he keeps rolling on.

As always the usual loon and moonbats are out in force to defend the terrorists. 6 months and Hamas starts a fight to get everyones attention off of the fact that they suck at governing and are great at terrorising. Must still stinging from having one of their leaders meekly surrender in his gonch to the IDF.

As for Hezbollah (the largest terrorsit org. int he world!!!)
I haven't seen a good St. Noam quote lately ever since he got back from "hang'n" with Hezbollah and call Isreal a terrorist state, to see where his view lie in all this. I am sure he is washing his hands like he did with Pol Pot.

I hear Hezbollah's leader has been killed. ****ty.

[HOZ]

What the hell are you talking about? Boat people? Are you denying that US forces killed millions, or pointing out that the North also killed many?

As per the norm, your post is unintelligble.

Didn't deny a thing. Just had to add to your usual anti-american post. North Vietnamese killed there million in a much shorter period....commited genocide too!!!!!

How is St. Noam by the way?

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Have to say I am enjoying Lanny's decent into madness. Like watching a carwreck in slow motion. Keep screaming stop but he keeps rolling on.

As always the usual loon and moonbats are out in force to defend the terrorists. 6 months and Hamas starts a fight to get everyones attention off of the fact that they suck at governing and are great at terrorising. Must still stinging from having one of their leaders meekly surrender in his gonch to the IDF.

As for Hezbollah (the largest terrorsit org. int he world!!!)
I haven't seen a good St. Noam quote lately ever since he got back from "hang'n" with Hezbollah and call Isreal a terrorist state, to see where his view lie in all this. I am sure he is washing his hands like he did with Pol Pot.

I hear Hezbollah's leader has been killed. ****ty.

Nice piece of trolling. Should we expect anything less from you? :bag:

[jolinar of malkshor]

You need a security clearance to be in daycare these days? Wow. The Canadian government has gone hardcore under Harper!

That was a mature comment. People are going to take you even more seriously now.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

That was a mature comment. People are going to take you even more seriously now.

Hey, you're the one claiming to be a secret agent, not me.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Hey, you're the one claiming to be a secret agent, not me.

I did???

Where exactly did you read that?? Oh.......Yes.......your reading between the lines again.......nice.

[RougeUnderoos]

How is St. Noam by the way?

You know, it's not funny. You've had three swings with that one and it's just not going to connect.

Anyhow, I just heard on the BBC news that "there have been 285 patients today, not a single one of them military or Hezbollah. One third of them children". They showed a cute little baby with plenty of shrapnel wounds.

I suppose I'm a loon and a moonbat (that's a clever one, btw) to even suggest that this is not helping Israel.

[jolinar of malkshor]

You know, it's not funny. You've had three swings with that one and it's just not going to connect.

Anyhow, I just heard on the BBC news that "there have been 285 patients today, not a single one of them military or Hezbollah. One third of them children". They showed a cute little baby with plenty of shrapnel wounds.

I suppose I'm a loon and a moonbat (that's a clever one, btw) to even suggest that this is not helping Israel.

I agree with you that a lot of inoccent people are being killed and injured, but I am sure the BBC is showing what they want to show, just like the CBC is only showing people who are ****ed off at how slow "apparently" the Canadian government is at getting the citizens out. My guess there is more people that are thankful or happy they are out than people who are ****ed off because they couldn't get out the day the bombs dropped.

[HOZ]

Guess who said this....

I really wanted to say that, for all those who accuse the likes of myself and the birthday girl of being unpatriotic, or hating America first, the feeling I've had watching Israel defend herself and a US president defend Israel (a country that is held to a standard for "restraint" that no other country ever is asked to meet, but that's another story) just reminds me how wrong that is. I LOVE being on the side of my president, and mouthing "You go, boy" when he gets it right.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-maher/i-love-being-on-the-side-_b_25375.html

[HOZ]

You know, it's not funny. You've had three swings with that one and it's just not going to connect.

Anyhow, I just heard on the BBC news that "there have been 285 patients today, not a single one of them military or Hezbollah. One third of them children". They showed a cute little baby with plenty of shrapnel wounds.

I suppose I'm a loon and a moonbat (that's a clever one, btw) to even suggest that this is not helping Israel.

What does BBC say about Hezbollah? Largest Tewrrorist org int he world BTW.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1908671.stm
Hezbollah's political rhetoric has centred on calls for the destruction of the state of Israel.:ph34r:


Their arms and where?:blink:
Hezbollah has hidden hundreds of ready-to-fire rockets in populated *****e neighborhoods, in apartment buildings, parking garages and farms, Israeli sources said.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/story/435987p-367346c.html


Maybe that explains the casualties?:eek:

[RougeUnderoos]

What does BBC say about Hezbollah? Largest Tewrrorist org int he world BTW.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1908671.stm
Hezbollah's political rhetoric has centred on calls for the destruction of the state of Israel.:ph34r:


Their arms and where?:blink:
Hezbollah has hidden hundreds of ready-to-fire rockets in populated *****e neighborhoods, in apartment buildings, parking garages and farms, Israeli sources said.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/story/435987p-367346c.html


Maybe that explains the casualties?:eek:

Yeah, I get it. They are terrorists. I'm not defending their actions, I am criticizing Israel's. I don't like police brutality either, but it doesn't mean I'm pro-crime.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

I did???

Where exactly did you read that?? Oh.......Yes.......your reading between the lines again.......nice.

You're saying that you have access to classified materials (highly compartmentalized) that would prove just how wrong me, and a dozen other people in this thread, are about our position. Based on the discussion and the subject matter, that would mean you have access to military intel, meaning you are either senior military or an intelligence analyst/operative. You're too stupid and bigotted to be any sort of analyst. Analysts have to be able to see both sides of the conflict, digest the data, and make recommendations based on all of the data, not just the data that fits their story (your nice little lie earlier in this thread proves you incapable of analysis work). A senior military officer would likely not be on a message board freely discussing matters like this, as they would be well aware that all traffic leaving their infrastrature is monitored. That leaves one more option. So what are you going to claim to be next? Come on, meet the challenge. Move to Edmonton, steal yourself a pair of ball off the back of a truck and man up! Support your claim!

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Guess who said this....

I really wanted to say that, for all those who accuse the likes of myself and the birthday girl of being unpatriotic, or hating America first, the feeling I've had watching Israel defend herself and a US president defend Israel (a country that is held to a standard for "restraint" that no other country ever is asked to meet, but that's another story) just reminds me how wrong that is. I LOVE being on the side of my president, and mouthing "You go, boy" when he gets it right.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-maher/i-love-being-on-the-side-_b_25375.html

Good on Bill Maher. He has the right to support who he wishes. That's what makes America great. Bill has always been pro-Israel, so that's not overly surprising. I'll be looking forward to hearing more on his position and why he feels this way, if it is just his connection to the jewish community, or if he feels this is political correct.

[Azure]

Yeah, I get it. They are terrorists. I'm not defending their actions, I am criticizing Israel's. I don't like police brutality either, but it doesn't mean I'm pro-crime.

I know you get that.

What you don't seem to get is that Hebollah is operating out out civilain homes, and basically right amongst them.

That is why there are innocent civilians being killed, EVEN THOUGH Israel is not trying to do it on purpose.

Hezbollah on the other hand, seems to directly try and launch their rockets at Israeli citizens, showing yet again who is the terrorizing nation, and who is AT LEAST trying to minimize casualties.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

What you don't seem to get is that Hebollah is operating out out civilain homes, and basically right amongst them.

Sounds like a job for special forces, not air forces.

That is why there are innocent civilians being killed, EVEN THOUGH Israel is not trying to do it on purpose.

Can you prove that? It seems Israel is not just dropping smart bombs, they are firing artillery pieces as well. That is not an attempt to make a surgical strike. That's nothing more than an attempt to soften up the enemy.

Hezbollah on the other hand, seems to directly try and launch their rockets at Israeli citizens, showing yet again who is the terrorizing nation, and who is AT LEAST trying to minimize casualties.

As indicated in a previously linked article, both sides are using less than exacting weapons. The Israelis are not attempting to make the clean strikes you suggest. They are using artillery pieces and firing indescriminantly into Lebanon. Both sides are using similar tactics.

[Azure]

Sounds like a job for special forces, not air forces.

I can't disagree with that. But I think me and you would agree that Hezbollah infastructure SHOULD be destroyed by Special Forces.

Israel is hinting at a invasion though. And we all know how bloody house to house warefare can be.


Can you prove that? It seems Israel is not just dropping smart bombs, they are firing artillery pieces as well. That is not an attempt to make a surgical strike. That's nothing more than an attempt to soften up the enemy.


Yet, they are still firing at Hezbollah infastructure, HOPING to kill and destroy the terrorists. And YES, by doing that, they are and will hit innocent civilians.

That is where the theory of collateral damage applies, even though me, you and everyone else cannot stand it.


As indicated in a previously linked article, both sides are using less than exacting weapons. The Israelis are not attempting to make the clean strikes you suggest. They are using artillery pieces and firing indescriminantly into Lebanon. Both sides are using similar tactics.


One side is shooting at cities, the other at terrorist targets.

Thats where I find the difference.

[RougeUnderoos]

I know you get that.

What you don't seem to get is that Hebollah is operating out out civilain homes, and basically right amongst them.

That is why there are innocent civilians being killed, EVEN THOUGH Israel is not trying to do it on purpose.

Hezbollah on the other hand, seems to directly try and launch their rockets at Israeli citizens, showing yet again who is the terrorizing nation, and who is AT LEAST trying to minimize casualties.

Trying to minimize casualties? I don't know about that. They certainly aren't trying to maximize casualties, but they don't seem too worried about killing scores of civilians. How do I know this? Because the Israelis know that they are killing civilians and they've said "yeah, and we are going to continue doing what we are doing".

I saw a woman on the news earlier tonight and she is worried about her parents trying to get out of Lebanon. There was some talk of a bus taking them somewhere but since the Israeli jets are targetting big trucks and buses because they might be carrying something nasty. The PM was on Larry King and he said the same thing. Does that sound like trying to minimize civilian casualties to you?

[jolinar of malkshor]

You're saying that you have access to classified materials (highly compartmentalized) that would prove just how wrong me, and a dozen other people in this thread, are about our position. Based on the discussion and the subject matter, that would mean you have access to military intel, meaning you are either senior military or an intelligence analyst/operative. You're too stupid and bigotted to be any sort of analyst. Analysts have to be able to see both sides of the conflict, digest the data, and make recommendations based on all of the data, not just the data that fits their story (your nice little lie earlier in this thread proves you incapable of analysis work). A senior military officer would likely not be on a message board freely discussing matters like this, as they would be well aware that all traffic leaving their infrastrature is monitored. That leaves one more option. So what are you going to claim to be next? Come on, meet the challenge. Move to Edmonton, steal yourself a pair of ball off the back of a truck and man up! Support your claim!

If you think the only people that have access to classified material are senior military personal or analysts then you are even more out to lunch than I thought. Also whats with you going around claiming I said all this crap that proves you wrong and claiming to be a secret agent???? Weren't you the one yesterday calling me a lier and fraud because YOU thought I mis-represented myself??? Yet you have no problem posting complete fallacies of what you claim others have said.

What makes you think I am posting these messages from a government controlled terminal?? Did it ever cross your mind that maybe I have my own computer at home or a laptop that I can carry on business not on a government network??? I never told you that I would prove you wrong. I actually said I would not provide material that May Prove you right or wrong.

Like I said I don't need to prove to you what materials I have access to and I never expected you to believe my claim because even if I did provide materials to you you would only accept them if it came from your relative, apparently.

But keep on with the bla bla bla it just shows the rest of the forum what kind of arogant person you are.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

..

[jolinar of malkshor]

Deleted

[Regorium]

That is where the theory of collateral damage applies, even though me, you and everyone else cannot stand it.

One side is shooting at cities, the other at terrorist targets.

Thats where I find the difference.

You can't stand it? Really. I don't see you condemning Israel for the collateral damage then. This is the first time you've shown any capability for seeing two sides of the war, and you said it in a round about way. Isn't it anti-Semetic to even think this way? :eek:

Oh yeah, and since we're all IN Lebanon ourselves, we know where exactly Hezbollah is operating. Of course they're operating from suburbs and villages! That's what the media tells us right?

Blowing up buses and trucks with fleeing civilians - ie. INTENT TO KILL THEM. Bull****. That's what this is.

[spiteface]

Azure et el, you are the epitomy of North American ignorance. The only way you will feel towards the ppl suffering in the Middle East is if you ever end up stranded in the middle of Gaza or where ever, mistaken for one, and treated like one.

[peter12]

Azure et el, you are the epitomy of North American ignorance. The only way you will feel towards the ppl suffering in the Middle East is if you ever end up stranded in the middle of Gaza or where ever, mistaken for one, and treated like one.

Oh brother kid. If you only knew the places I've walked on my own two feet.

[Calgaryborn]

What Israel is doing is right. They need to destroy Hesbollah and if Hesbollsh hides behide women and children then those lives are on Hesbollah's head as well as the government of Lebanon. A government is responsible for what they allow to go on in their country. They have allowed a group of terrorist to operate and plot harm against another nation from within their borders. What makes this worse is that nation is much more powerful than Lebanon. The people should shake their fists at their own government for bringing this upon them.

A good government brings peace and prosperity to its people. A bad government invites unnecessary hardship.

Israel should assault Hesbollah and the Lebanese army if they join ranks as hard and as swiftly as possible. My father told me once that if your ever forced to fight: Fight. Don't hesitate and don't worry that your causing too much damage or if it's dirty or not. Don't stop until he's down and not getting back up. This is what Israel must do to Hesbollah.

[Azure]

Trying to minimize casualties? I don't know about that. They certainly aren't trying to maximize casualties, but they don't seem too worried about killing scores of civilians. How do I know this? Because the Israelis know that they are killing civilians and they've said "yeah, and we are going to continue doing what we are doing".

Jesus Christ man, what do you expect them to do? Sit back and let Hezbollah go, while Israel has over 13,000 rockets pointing at their every single city?

I'm just glad you are never put in the situation where killing a thousand people may save a million lives. You'd be crying over the thousand while the other million were being killed.


I saw a woman on the news earlier tonight and she is worried about her parents trying to get out of Lebanon. There was some talk of a bus taking them somewhere but since the Israeli jets are targetting big trucks and buses because they might be carrying something nasty. The PM was on Larry King and he said the same thing. Does that sound like trying to minimize civilian casualties to you?


Maybe the Labanese civilains should take another route then, don't you think? Or they should have revolted 20 years ago when Hezbollah first set up shop. Then this whole problem wouldn't have occured.

[Azure]

You can't stand it? Really. I don't see you condemning Israel for the collateral damage then. This is the first time you've shown any capability for seeing two sides of the war, and you said it in a round about way. Isn't it anti-Semetic to even think this way? :eek:

I don't see you condemning Hezbollah either, so STFU.

Oh yeah, and since we're all IN Lebanon ourselves, we know where exactly Hezbollah is operating. Of course they're operating from suburbs and villages! That's what the media tells us right?

Like Lanny has said before, in order to bomb the buildings, Israel MUST have troops operating inside Lebanon to pinpoint the bombs. Surely that gives you better intelligence then the media, right?


Blowing up buses and trucks with fleeing civilians - ie. INTENT TO KILL THEM. Bull****. That's what this is.


Where have they INTENDED to blow up a bus? Provide me with some links wiseguy.

[Azure]

Azure et el, you are the epitomy of North American ignorance. The only way you will feel towards the ppl suffering in the Middle East is if you ever end up stranded in the middle of Gaza or where ever, mistaken for one, and treated like one.

Oh shut the hell up. You have no idea about my background, my family, and what I have been through.

I'm still waiting for you to explain to me how Lebanese civilians are to fly out of Lebanon and into Calgary, a WEEK after the conflict started.

[RougeUnderoos]

Jesus Christ man, what do you expect them to do? Sit back and let Hezbollah go, while Israel has over 13,000 rockets pointing at every single city?

I'm just glad you are never put in the situation where killing a thousand people may save a million lives. You'd be crying over the thousand while the other million were being killed.



Jesus Christ man, I expect them to not free-up the Hezbollah recruiting budget for the next 25 years but whaddya know, they've gone and done that in the past week.

I'm just glad you will never be put in the position to cook a medium-rare steak for me, because I'm pretty sure I'd get either raw meat or a piece of charcoal.

[Azure]

Jesus Christ man, I expect them to not free-up the Hezbollah recruiting budget for the next 25 years but whaddya know, they've gone and done that in the past week.

I'm just glad you will never be put in the position to cook a medium-rare steak for me, because I'm pretty sure I'd get either raw meat or a piece of charcoal.

Nice comparison, and a perfectly good solution to the problem.

It's sad, really.

The "international community" screams for 20 years for Israel to leave southern Lebanon. Hezbollah insists they are only fighting to end the occupation.

Israel, wanting only peace, relents and withdraws.

Hardly any time passes and rocket attacks begin on Israli villages near the border. Hezbolah begins to build full-fledged fire bases along the border, stocking thousands upon thousands of rockets. The UN - which has troops there to enforce the promised disarmamement of Hezbollah - does, and says, NOTHING.

Hezbollah - views Israel's withdrawal not as a good faith gesture of peace, but as a sign of weakness. They interpret Israel's actions as proof that terrorism is successful, and believe that continued efforts might eventually accomplish their long term goal of dissolving Israel all together.

Meanwhile, most of the international press ignores that this is the cycle that has been repeated for 60 years, and once again condemns ISRAEL for daring to defend itself.

[Azure]

The Israel Air Force targeted an area near the city of Tyre, in southern Lebanon, used as launching grounds for missiles fired by Hezbollah terror organization at Israel.

The IDF regrets civilian casualties while targeting the missile launching area.

Responsibility for endangering civilian population rests on the Hezbollah terror organization which operates and launches missiles at Israel from populated civilian areas.

In the last 72 hours the Hezbollah terror organization has launched hundreds of rockets indiscriminately at Israeli cities putting over a million Israeli citizens within the range of missile fire.

The IDF makes every effort to keep civilians out of harm's way as we continue to defend the citizens of the state of Israel.


http://www1.idf.il/DOVER/site/mainpage.asp?sl=EN&id=7&clr=1&docid=54417.EN

Just exactly WHERE has Hezbollah ever said ANYTHING like that?

[RougeUnderoos]

Nice comparison, and a perfectly good solution to the problem.




I didn't make any comparison or offer any solution. I made a comment on your take of the situation. If you didn't get it then that's your problem, not mine.

[CaptainCrunch]

I was thinking tonight that the burden of responsibility lies heavily on the head of the Hezbollah, first for whats happening in Lebanon, and second for securing the cease fire in the region.

I mean the conflicts already happening, and Hezbollah started it by poking a bear with a rocket propelled stick. If they're serious about protecting thier people, all they have to do is return the soldiers and destroy thier stockpiles of rockets, and Israel might be willing to accept a return to status quo ante.

No matter what anyone says to me, I just can't view the Hezbollah as the protectors of thier people. Its something along the lines of living up to thier charter and using thier own people as useful idiots (As Stalin used to say) Secretly Hezbollah wants as many civillian casualties as it can get on both sides of the border. From the Lebanese side it makes it easier for them to receiver donations from radical governments in the region. Fresh troops that they can send to thier blessed martyred deaths (the younger the better, its good press), and with more money comes more advanced weapons (we've already seen it in this conflict as they've received longer ranged weapons). They want more casualties in Israel, because they know that Israel has to react, causing more deaths in Lebanon, and thus, well see above.

If your going to complain about Civilian casualties in Lebanon, you have to complain about Civilian attacks in Israel. If your going to assign blame you have to assign it between the two parties. Israel for the collateral damage that has happened. Hezbollah for using thier own people and the Civillians that they are the so called liberators for as pawns.

Which group is more evil and needs to be wiped from the earth is fairly apparent in my opinion.

Sadly like a gnat its next to impossible to wipe out a decentralized organization like the Hezbollah or Hamas. But for the sack of thier security and thier future, Israel has to engage them.

Tho I don't think that this is a conflict thats going to escalate to involve other countries, I think its going to be a years long conflict that will produce bloodshed of unprecedented proportion among civillian casualties. Hezbollah has played Israel and everybody else, and they're going to come out of it with less damage then Israel or Lebanon. Hows that for justice.

[Azure]

I didn't make any comparison or offer any solution. I made a comment on your take of the situation. If you didn't get it then that's your problem, not mine.

And I asked you what you would do if a terrorist group had 13,000 rockets pointed at your country, and you had the power to take them out?

Or are you avoiding "another" question?

[spiteface]

Oh shut the hell up. You have no idea about my background, my family, and what I have been through.

I'm still waiting for you to explain to me how Lebanese civilians are to fly out of Lebanon and into Calgary, a WEEK after the conflict started.

I would love to know about your extensive background regarding the Middle East... pls do elaborate.

I never told you they flew out of Lebanon. All i said was that i picked them up from teh airport in calgary. Can you figure out that they might've flown out of another country like Jordan or Syria?

[spiteface]

Oh brother kid. If you only knew the places I've walked on my own two feet.

Kid? Own two feet eh. You must be a man. Tell me when was the last time a hostile group entered your grandparents house and abducted your own cousin? But I'm sure you stood on your own 2 feet and would never let such a thing happen...

[Azure]

I would love to know about your extensive background regarding the Middle East... pls do elaborate.

I never told you they flew out of Lebanon. All i said was that i picked them up from teh airport in calgary. Can you figure out that they might've flown out of another country like Jordan or Syria?

Actually, I don't feel like sharing ANY personal information on a public board. Feel free to PM me.

Maybe you should come clean just exactly where they come from....which is exactly why I was asking.

[Azure]

Kid? Own two feet eh. You must be a man. Tell me when was the last time a hostile group entered your grandparents house and abducted your own cousin? But I'm sure you stood on your own 2 feet and would never let such a thing happen...

Hostile group being who? When did this happen, and where? Now that you started the story, explain so we can all understand.

[spiteface]

And I asked you what you would do if a terrorist group had 13,000 rockets pointed at your country, and you had the power to take them out?

Or are you avoiding "another" question?

The terrorists with the F16s and Apache planes dont signify much in the face of Hizbollah right? Just ask the average Palestinian "living" in Gaza. Buddy, look through the history of the region. And the one time all 3 makor celestial religions coexisted was when it was the mandate of Palestine in control, when every religion was respected and both Christians and Jews were allowed to practice their own belefs without question from the controlling govt. Im too lazy to search right now but I can assure u its up on wikipedia or somewhere...

[spiteface]

Actually, I don't feel like sharing ANY personal information on a public board. Feel free to PM me.

Maybe you should come clean just exactly where they come from....which is exactly why I was asking.

How familiar are you with the region? It should be self-explanatory when you know that Lebanon is Syria's neighbour who is Jordan's neighbour... Come clean? WHat am i hiding weapons of mass destruction now ?

[Azure]

The terrorists with the F16s and Apache planes dont signify much in the face of Hizbollah right?

Come back when you can refer to Israel as NOT being a terrorist nation.

About your friends, here you clearly infer that they came from Lebanon.


I just picked up my friends from the airport who fled the country in disbelief

[spiteface]

Actually, I don't feel like sharing ANY personal information on a public board. Feel free to PM me.

.

What do you have to hide

[spiteface]

Come back when you can refer to Israel as NOT being a terrorist nation.

About your friends, here you clearly infer that they came from Lebanon.

You're dense. They fled Lebanon by car to Syria, drove to Jordan and flew out from there. What difference does that make in your life?

[Azure]

How familiar are you with the region? It should be self-explanatory when you know that Lebanon is Syria's neighbour who is Jordan's neighbour... Come clean? WHat am i hiding weapons of mass destruction now ?

What the hell are you talking about?

You wanted to know if my background had anything to do with the ME, and I told you to PM me if you wanted more information. I know the region is screwed up, mainly because Israel is sorrounded by two groups, HAMAS and Hezbollah, who both have one intention, annex and destroy Israel.

You have already stated your hatred for Israel, plus your support for Hezbollah, so all this doesn't suprise me.

[spiteface]

Come back when you can refer to Israel as NOT being a terrorist nation.

About your friends, here you clearly infer that they came from Lebanon.

Israel, being the stronger nation, are entirely responsible for not envoking a more peaceful rationale to the crisis in the middle east. Hence they must be labelled as terrorists. Not only you ane CNN get to choose who the terrorists are...

[Azure]

What do you have to hide

Its a freakin' public board. For God sakes, PM me if you really want to know.

I don't share personal information on a public board.

[spiteface]

What the hell are you talking about?

You wanted to know if my background had anything to do with the ME, and I told you to PM me if you wanted more information. I know the region is screwed up, mainly because Israel is sorrounded by two groups, HAMAS and Hezbollah, who both have one intention, annex and destroy Israel.

You have already stated your hatred for Israel, plus your support for Hezbollah, so all this doesn't suprise me.

Why do you put words in my mouth rather than coming up with intact arguments or rebuttals.

I dont support war. Can you repeat after me. If Israel didn't want war, they could've easily avoided it. They are the ones to blame and that's the end of it.

[Azure]

You're dense. They fled Lebanon by car to Syria, drove to Jordan and flew out from there. What difference does that make in your life?

Fair enough.

I wanted an explanation, something wrong with that?

[spiteface]

Fair enough.

I wanted an explanation, something wrong with that?

They had an interview with them on CTV. You should check it out.

[Azure]

Why do you put words in my mouth rather than coming up with intact arguments or rebuttals.

I dont support war. Can you repeat after me. If Israel didn't want war, they could've easily avoided it. They are the ones to blame and that's the end of it.

The end of it? So Hezbollah is totally innocent?

your hatred for Israel...

My two cents and im sick of Israel. They will get theirs.

[CaptainCrunch]

Israel, being the stronger nation, are entirely responsible for not envoking a more peaceful rationale to the crisis in the middle east. Hence they must be labelled as terrorists. Not only you ane CNN get to choose who the terrorists are...

Your kidding here right, Israel is the stronger nation. Israel has been attacked with rockets and had thier own citizens kidnapped from within thier own borders. Hezbollah had the option of returning these hostages and ceasing thier attacks on Israel's civilians, and instead choose to egg Israel on, and threaten them with further and larger attacks. They can't negotiate with Hezbollah, and Hamas, because both groups have proven to be untrustworthy.

Israel is the only one out of the involved parties (Hezbollah, Hamas and Palestine, and Lebanon), that has actually tried to participate in the peace process with the intent of actually stabilizing the region and attaining security for themselves. All they've gotten in return is lies, and attacks. So again please tell me how Israel is completely responsible.

[Azure]

They had an interview with them on CTV. You should check it out.

Well I searched Google and couldn't find anything, so CTV must not have posted a link anywhere.

I guess I missed it then.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Israel, being the stronger nation, are entirely responsible for not envoking a more peaceful rationale to the crisis in the middle east. Hence they must be labelled as terrorists. Not only you ane CNN get to choose who the terrorists are...

Israel has made MANY and I mean MANY attempts at peace and every time they give something...........you know what they get back..............thats right a rocket right up their ass.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Israel has made MANY and I mean MANY attempts at peace and every time they give something...........you know what they get back..............thats right a rocket right up their ass.

I didnt mean for it to sound like that.:eek:

[Azure]

Israel, being the stronger nation, are entirely responsible for not envoking a more peaceful rationale to the crisis in the middle east. Hence they must be labelled as terrorists. Not only you ane CNN get to choose who the terrorists are...

What does being a "stronger" nation have to do with who is at fault?

Basically, you're telling me the US is at fault for WW2, as they were the "stronger" nation. Right?

[Azure]

I didnt mean for it to sound like that.:eek:

Well don't change it.

You're right on the money.

[FlamesAddiction]

They can't negotiate with Hezbollah, and Hamas, because both groups have proven to be untrustworthy.

Israel is the only one out of the involved parties (Hezbollah, Hamas and Palestine, and Lebanon), that has actually tried to participate in the peace process with the intent of actually stabilizing the region and attaining security for themselves. All they've gotten in return is lies, and attacks. So again please tell me how Israel is completely responsible.

Israel has shown itself to be untrustworthy at times as well, with their policy of giving with one hand while taking with the other.

We often see them giving concessions at high profile peace meetings, such as removal of settlements on Arab land, only to turn around when the media spotlight is gone and establish more settlements elsewhere, or continue water diversion projects from the West Bank into Israel proper.

[Azure]

History lesson for everyone, well sort of.

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=4&section=0&article=67672&d=29&m=7&y=2005


BEIRUT, 29 July 2005 — Lebanon’s new government defended the right of Hezbollah guerrillas to resist Israel and pledged solid ties with Syria yesterday...

Siniora said the government would defend Lebanon’s right to resistance, a term usually used for pro-Syrian Hizbollah, which helped end Israel’s 22-year occupation of the south in 2000.

“The government considers the resistance a natural and honest expression of the Lebanese people’s national rights to liberate their land and defend their honor against Israeli aggression and threats,” he told Parliament.


Fast forward almost a year.....

http://english.people.com.cn/200607/13/eng20060713_282599.html

The Lebanese government said on Wednesday that it was not responsible for Hezbollah's captureof two Israeli soldiers and demanded an urgent meeting of the UN Security Council on Israel's retaliation.


"The Lebanese government was not informed and does not take responsibility for what happened on the international border," Lebanese Information Minister Ghazi Aridi said after an urgent cabinet meeting.


Hyprocritical?

[HOZ]

And the one time all 3 makor celestial religions coexisted was when it was the mandate of Palestine in control, when every religion was respected and both Christians and Jews were allowed to practice their own belefs without question from the controlling govt. Im too lazy to search right now but I can assure u its up on wikipedia or somewhere...


HUH? Is this the "JOOS are monkey and pigs" version of history? A quick perusal of MEMRI anyone can see this load of bunk being driven into the heads of children among other truely disgusting and repugnant things. I suggest you stop being so lazy and picking up a BOOK and actually learn your history.

From the Roman Empire, Benzintine Wmpire, Kingdom of Jeruselem, varius Caliphates, Ottoman Empire and then the British Empire (who pretty much drew the borders we see today) Palestine never existed as a country. There was no Palestine control of jack. In 1948 Jordan controlled the West Bank and Egypt controlled Gaza. The British Empire gave up control and the UN set up a nation where the Jews and Palestine Arabs would co-exist. Instead of building a country with the Jews the Arabs went to war. The Jews won an Israel was born.

Now I am sure I have missed a few bullet points but the fact is Palestine never existed. As for the lovey dovey we all sat down and sang cum ba ya together under Arab control. Jews were forbidden to visit their holiest place until they liberated it.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Well Palistine did exist for a brief time after the UN divided the area both for Israel and Arab Palistine. The problem was that as soon as Israel declared independence the other neighbouring countries, and we know who they are, attack Israel to try and wipe them out. As we all know they lost and under the Armistice Agreement the other Arab countries decided to divide what was left of Palistine up amungst themselves.

[Kobasew fan]

Israel, being the stronger nation, are entirely responsible for not envoking a more peaceful rationale to the crisis in the middle east. Hence they must be labelled as terrorists. Not only you ane CNN get to choose who the terrorists are...

What are you thinking. It certainly sounds like you suggest that Isreal should allow Hezbollah, a recognized terrorist organization, to use suicide bombers to blow up Israilis, then kidnap there soldiers, and even bomb Isreal and not do anything about it. How is that even rational? Isreal certainly did not ask Hezbollah to do all of these things so I don't get how this is ALL Isreals fault and thus terrorists.

[Agamemnon]

Didn't deny a thing. Just had to add to your usual anti-american post. North Vietnamese killed there million in a much shorter period....commited genocide too!!!!!
It was a fact, not a subjective comment. If you care to counter that fact with another, you're welcome too. I guess being a dick as well is just icing on the cake.

How is St. Noam by the way?
I wouldn't know. Why don't you search through the board history and find the last time I've mentioned him? I dare you to back up your sniveling comment.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Wading through the dreck, I found this post that deserved a response.

I was thinking tonight that the burden of responsibility lies heavily on the head of the Hezbollah, first for whats happening in Lebanon, and second for securing the cease fire in the region.

Can't agree with you. I think the force with greatest power has to lay the olive branch on the table. When the neighborhood bully is kicking the crap out of the skinny little nerd at recess, and all the other kids are looking on, the skinny little kid doesn't win points by calling for a truce.

I mean the conflicts already happening, and Hezbollah started it by poking a bear with a rocket propelled stick. If they're serious about protecting thier people, all they have to do is return the soldiers and destroy thier stockpiles of rockets, and Israel might be willing to accept a return to status quo ante.

Oh boy! The status quo! More oppression for the people who lived for generations on the lands Israel now occupies! Wow, what a victory!

No matter what anyone says to me, I just can't view the Hezbollah as the protectors of thier people.

Neither can I. I can't believe that anyone would turn to these clowns to protect themselves and represent them. But you know what, I can't believe that the American people would elect George W. Bush as president of the United States (TWICE!!!) to protect them and represent them. People on both sides appear to do stupid things. Fact of the matter is that the people do view Hezbollah as their protector and we have to accept that. We don't have to like it, but we do have to accept that. And why do we have to accept it? Because when we don't, we force our beliefs on them, and we force them to live to our standard, not their own. That is a form of oppression, and its something that countries like ours are not supposed to support. Ironically, its something our governments do all the time and support other governments that do it to their own people.

Its something along the lines of living up to thier charter and using thier own people as useful idiots (As Stalin used to say) Secretly Hezbollah wants as many civillian casualties as it can get on both sides of the border. From the Lebanese side it makes it easier for them to receiver donations from radical governments in the region. Fresh troops that they can send to thier blessed martyred deaths (the younger the better, its good press), and with more money comes more advanced weapons (we've already seen it in this conflict as they've received longer ranged weapons). They want more casualties in Israel, because they know that Israel has to react, causing more deaths in Lebanon, and thus, well see above.

And secretly Israel wants the same thing. Those casualties inside their own borders give them the excuse to broaden the conflict and slowly chew away more and more of the countries surrounding them. If Israel were so concerned about these missiles being launched into their homeland they would deploy their Patriot batteries to the north and eliminate them. I'm sure America would be extremely thankful for the real world data those intercepts could provide and would give them MORE free weapons to "protect" themselves.

If your going to complain about Civilian casualties in Lebanon, you have to complain about Civilian attacks in Israel. If your going to assign blame you have to assign it between the two parties. Israel for the collateral damage that has happened. Hezbollah for using thier own people and the Civillians that they are the so called liberators for as pawns.

Hmmm, I haven't heard a single person say Hezbollah was innocent here. I haven't heard a single person say that their actions have not been vile and that they are not helping the situation. Hezbollah is indeed responsible for many of the things you suggest, but when you are taking on a greater power, you fight in the most effective manner. As military man you know this. Or are you suggesting that if America invaded Canada you would just lay your weapons down and let the Yanks take turns on your wife and kids. Or would you fight with any means possible?

Which group is more evil and needs to be wiped from the earth is fairly apparent in my opinion.

Hilarious! It's okay to say that Arabs should be wiped from the earth, but its terrible to say the Jews should be wiped from the earth? Holy double standard Batman! Frankly, the earth would be much better off if the whole ****ing species were eliminated! Here's to the elimination of man from the face of the earth!

Sadly like a gnat its next to impossible to wipe out a decentralized organization like the Hezbollah or Hamas. But for the sack of thier security and thier future, Israel has to engage them.

You're just starting to catch on to that now? How many years did it take for you to figure that out? Frankly, Israel has to make it socially unacceptable for organizations like Hexbollah and Hamas to exist. But as long as they continue to play the part of oppressor that will never happen. As long as they continue to hide behind America's skirt and stick their tongue out at the Arab states, that will never happen. The only way this ends peacefully and exterminates Hezbollah and Hamas is to intergrate Arabs into their culture and vice versa. They need to open up their society MORE and give Arabs (nee Palestinians) a chance to play important roles in the direction of the region.


Tho I don't think that this is a conflict thats going to escalate to involve other countries, I think its going to be a years long conflict that will produce bloodshed of unprecedented proportion among civillian casualties. Hezbollah has played Israel and everybody else, and they're going to come out of it with less damage then Israel or Lebanon. Hows that for justice.

We'll see. I think this is still a powder keg waiting to explode. All its going to take is the Israeli invasion to put other countries on higher alert. At that point, all bets are off. A simple miscommunication could lead to others entering the fray. As soon as that third party gets dragged into this, by intention or by accident, its going to draw the region ito all out war.

[Looger]

why anyone trying to defend israel would bring up the circumstances of its creation, is shocking in of itself.

1897 first zionist conference, theodor hertzl says that the zionists must colonize palestine.

early 20th century, extremists start moving to palestine, where sephardic jews have been living with arabs for centuries. they start displacing villages and killing the innocent. they are after all, crazy sick extremists. some arabs organize and respond by killing innocent jews.

balfour declaration 1917 palestine is promised to the zionists if they can get the US into the war. they do.

chazz wiezman (sp?) accepts king faisal's decree that an area of palestine be set up for a jewish homeland.

the extreme zionists get into bed with nazism and convince many jews that the nazis just want to live seperately. they in many cases are the trusted voice that leads jews onto trains. they need their six million to fulfill prophecy - that number is mentioned in zionist books and documents in the 1930s. hertzl has been quoted as saying, paraphrasing, 'given the choice between a jew living somewhere besides palestine and being dead, i will choose dead'. the british zionists in fact talk the british government out of taking jews in from the third reich.

the creation of israel in 1948 is a slam dunk, as clearly the jews need a homeland. but when the arabs attack this tiny nation keep two things in mind:

1) they are responding to the sick ****ed up **** that the extreme zionists had been up to since the late 19th century, the details of which curdle the blood. after all the talmud says to put them to the sword, man woman and child. perhaps the sickest aspect of all this is that a lot of israeli immigrants are simply people fleeing the horrors of the holocaust, and had nothing to do with the massacre of arabs. they weren't looking for the war that their zionist leaders had been pushing for.

2) jordan invades syria in the 1948 war. arab solidarity???

i believe that israel should exist. i don't think you can displace them.

but people should really look into what the causes of this conflict are.

[Kobasew fan]

You're just starting to catch on to that now? How many years did it take for you to figure that out? Frankly, Israel has to make it socially unacceptable for organizations like Hexbollah and Hamas to exist. But as long as they continue to play the part of oppressor that will never happen. As long as they continue to hide behind America's skirt and stick their tongue out at the Arab states, that will never happen. The only way this ends peacefully and exterminates Hezbollah and Hamas is to intergrate Arabs into their culture and vice versa. They need to open up their society MORE and give Arabs (nee Palestinians) a chance to play important roles in the direction of the region.

Firstly, how exactly is Isreal playing the role of the oppressor? On a daily basis over the last several years have had to tolerate suicide bombers and now have the kidnapping of their soldiers. They havn't told the Arabs how to run their lives but simply will not negotiate with terrorists (of which Hezbollah is a recognized terrorist organization by many different countries).

Secondly, I don't see how the Arabs are not being given the choice of playing important roles in the direction of the region. In fact by sending in suicide bombers and kidnapping soldiers they are making a choice of the role they are doing. Unless you are suggesting that Isreal simply opens up their gates to the Arabs and puts them in control of their government, which I don't think you would suggest that as that would make no sense at all, right?

[calculoso]

Can't agree with you. I think the force with greatest power has to lay the olive branch on the table. When the neighborhood bully is kicking the crap out of the skinny little nerd at recess, and all the other kids are looking on, the skinny little kid doesn't win points by calling for a truce.


I agree.

That said, if the skinny little kid is throwing rocks at the bully and finally the bully snaps and beats him up, I find it hard to believe that most would still blame the bully.

Should the bully still show restraint and only "send a message" to leave him alone? IMO, yes... but that doesn't always work either.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Firstly, how exactly is Isreal playing the role of the oppressor? On a daily basis over the last several years have had to tolerate suicide bombers and now have the kidnapping of their soldiers. They havn't told the Arabs how to run their lives but simply will not negotiate with terrorists (of which Hezbollah is a recognized terrorist organization by many different countries).

How have they been oppressed? Hmmm, how about displacement? How about being second class citizens in their own land? How about having checkpoints to go through to do everything? How about the big wall? How about social profiling? Oppression comes in many many forms, and its a very personal thing.

What you view as oppression may not be the same as someone else. I know I feel oppressed when Americans make fun of the way I say certain things (PRO-cess, PRO-cedure, etc.). The furst few times is funny and all, but when they keep nattering at you about it, it becomes old and becomes oppressive. You may want to ask the englophones of Quebec whether they feel oppressed by the language laws there. As I said, oppression getsa to you, and at some point you can only take so much more. I swear, the next Yank that makes a crack when I say process is going to be picking their ****ing teeth up!

Secondly, I don't see how the Arabs are not being given the choice of playing important roles in the direction of the region. In fact by sending in suicide bombers and kidnapping soldiers they are making a choice of the role they are doing. Unless you are suggesting that Isreal simply opens up their gates to the Arabs and puts them in control of their government, which I don't think you would suggest that as that would make no sense at all, right?

Wake the **** up! The actions of a few do not make the whole evil. The vast majority of Arabs are peaceful and try to live in peaceful coexistence. But all the Arabs get punished by the Israelis when something happens. You don't want to believe that, but its true. Jesus, just look at the treatment of Arabs in America after 9/11. It was deplorable, and this is a country that doesn't have the pre-disposition to hating Arabs. There is a reason why all of that hatred festers and groups like Hezbollah garner the support they do. The people are tired of the **** the Jews do to them. They polarize to their own and get swallowed up in the frustration, turning to the extremists.

Personally, I think that Israel does do a pretty good job at trying to work with the Arabs, but that does not mean there is huge room for imporvement. When a group is elected as the representatives of the people, the right thing to do is to invite them to the table and break bread. Imagine what would have happened if Ottawa had not acknowledged the Bloc Quebecois? You think the seperatist movement wouldn't have been given a massive shot in the arm and the last vote wouldn't have gone in a different direct? The people have the right to determine who speaks for them. Israel must accept that choice and negotiate accordingly. Without first acknowledging and negotiating, the Israeli government does not ackowledge the Palestinians and that leads to the oppression that we just can't seem to wrap out westernized brains around. The rights of the Palestinians must be acknowledged if democracy is to flourish in the region. If those rights, and the will of the people, continue to be ignored, there will never be democracy in the Middle East. Without that acknowledgement and cooperation, you will continue to force people to side with the extremeists.

Question: Why did the United States select George Washington to be their first President? It was a job he did not want, and was forced into it. Why were the people so admant and him being the first President?

[CaptainCrunch]

Can't agree with you. I think the force with greatest power has to lay the olive branch on the table. When the neighborhood bully is kicking the crap out of the skinny little nerd at recess, and all the other kids are looking on, the skinny little kid doesn't win points by calling for a truce.

But if the skinny little kid is throwing rocks at the bully and then hiding behind a bunch of girls and snickering about it. And then telling everyone else in the school that he's going to sneak up on the bully and bash his head with a stick?

Israel shouldn't have to be the one that steps back, and the reason that I say this, is that if Israel stopped today, and sued for peace, Hezbollah might give them a 6 month respite, but the attacks would start again, and a re-armed Hezbollah with longer ranged rockets would emerge.

If Lebanon gave a sign of faith by signaling to the international community that they were deploying thier army, and going after Hezbollah, then it would kick the legs out from Israel as far as defending thier borders. But instead Lebanon has ignored a UN mandate to disarm Hezbollah, and in thier last statement to the press, basically ignored Hezbollah as the causitive factor in this current crisis, and blamed Israel.[/quote]

Oh boy! The status quo! More oppression for the people who lived for generations on the lands Israel now occupies! Wow, what a victory!

Just a clarification, if Israel restored to status quo Ante, and pulled thier military back inside of thier borders, then what lands are we talking about? If I remember your argument a few pages back, you stated that Israel should forget about the holocaust, If you go by that argument, Palestine, Lebanon, and the various extremist groups are going to have to forget about thier land claims and learn to co-exist with Israel.




Neither can I. I can't believe that anyone would turn to these clowns to protect themselves and represent them. But you know what, I can't believe that the American people would elect George W. Bush as president of the United States (TWICE!!!) to protect them and represent them. People on both sides appear to do stupid things. Fact of the matter is that the people do view Hezbollah as their protector and we have to accept that. We don't have to like it, but we do have to accept that. And why do we have to accept it? Because when we don't, we force our beliefs on them, and we force them to live to our standard, not their own. That is a form of oppression, and its something that countries like ours are not supposed to support. Ironically, its something our governments do all the time and support other governments that do it to their own people.

I don't want to get into a debate about Bush, I'm not his greatest fan. However at some point a legitimate country like Lebanon is going to have to seriously look at the standards of conduct within thier own national borders, groups like Hezbollah which are actually a great threat to the nation that thier based in have to be eliminated.

On the whole forcing standards thing, its pretty easy to solve that, all these countries have to do is refuse foreign aid from the states, and foreign expertise, and business. Isolate themselves from the international community, and they can set any kind of standard that they want. Its worked pretty well in North Korea.




And secretly Israel wants the same thing. Those casualties inside their own borders give them the excuse to broaden the conflict and slowly chew away more and more of the countries surrounding them. If Israel were so concerned about these missiles being launched into their homeland they would deploy their Patriot batteries to the north and eliminate them. I'm sure America would be extremely thankful for the real world data those intercepts could provide and would give them MORE free weapons to "protect" themselves.

I can't deny the top part, and I'm sure that Israel to some extent was looking for that final excuse to go after Hezbollah, and the continous rocket attacks are a giving Israel a reason to continue what they're doing. If these countries surrounding Israel would either control thier extremist elements, or recognize Israel's right to be there it would go a long way, because frankly Israel is not going anywhere, and with the exception or Iran (which I have my doubts from a conventional military standpoint) has the military to challenge Israel.

On your second point, there's no guarantee that something like a line of patriots is going to stop a determined attack, and it dosen't guarantee success 100% of the time. The only way to protect your citizen's from a ballistic attack is to take out the capability to launch those missiles. In military matters, the best defense is an overwhelming offense.



Hmmm, I haven't heard a single person say Hezbollah was innocent here. I haven't heard a single person say that their actions have not been vile and that they are not helping the situation. Hezbollah is indeed responsible for many of the things you suggest, but when you are taking on a greater power, you fight in the most effective manner. As military man you know this. Or are you suggesting that if America invaded Canada you would just lay your weapons down and let the Yanks take turns on your wife and kids. Or would you fight with any means possible?

Granted, but I wouldn't personally, defend my wife from being raped, by going down to washington and raping random woman. I wouldn't defend my family by going down and shooting another family. But I think for the most part there's a different value system for trained professional soldiers, and the nutbars that make up Hezbollah.





Hilarious! It's okay to say that Arabs should be wiped from the earth, but its terrible to say the Jews should be wiped from the earth? Holy double standard Batman! Frankly, the earth would be much better off if the whole ****ing species were eliminated! Here's to the elimination of man from the face of the earth!

Ok, I have to admit that I was a little insulted by this. Nowhere was I talking about genocide, or wiping out Arabs. Arab's shouldn't be wiped from the face of the earth, but the radical elements in Hezbollah, and Hamas, and these other nut cases who cause death and terror, yeah they need to be exterminated like rats.

I think I'm smart enough to seperate Arab's, and innocents from Hezbollah.



You're just starting to catch on to that now? How many years did it take for you to figure that out? Frankly, Israel has to make it socially unacceptable for organizations like Hexbollah and Hamas to exist. But as long as they continue to play the part of oppressor that will never happen. As long as they continue to hide behind America's skirt and stick their tongue out at the Arab states, that will never happen. The only way this ends peacefully and exterminates Hezbollah and Hamas is to intergrate Arabs into their culture and vice versa. They need to open up their society MORE and give Arabs (nee Palestinians) a chance to play important roles in the direction of the region.

Hezbollah dosen't care if they're socially acceptable, because they'll always find somebody to hate and murder. your statement about hiding behind the U.S. skirt, could be flipped around as Hezbollah continues to hide behind innocent civillians and stick thier toungues out as Israel.

Wouldn't Hezbollah also been an impedment to opening up society and integrating Arabs a chance to play roles in the region?

Also aren't there palestines in the Israel government, and high ranking officials in Israel's government? Palestine citizens have been denied opportunity and the fault can lay at Israel's feet, but you also have to look at the people who have represented Palestine on the international stage and at the negotiating stage.





We'll see. I think this is still a powder keg waiting to explode. All its going to take is the Israeli invasion to put other countries on higher alert. At that point, all bets are off. A simple miscommunication could lead to others entering the fray. As soon as that third party gets dragged into this, by intention or by accident, its going to draw the region ito all out war.

Here's hoping not.

[longsuffering]

But if the skinny little kid is throwing rocks at the bully and then hiding behind a bunch of girls and snickering about it. And then telling everyone else in the school that he's going to sneak up on the bully and bash his head with a stick?


Good analogy. Let's take it a step further. I agree the skinny kid should get a beat down but should the bully then beat the crap out of not only the skinny kid, but also the girls he's hiding behind, the families of the girls he hiding behind and for good measure burn down their houses too?

[longsuffering]

For a personal account of what is happening to Beirut, I suggest you read this:http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/a-farewell-to-beirut/2006/07/21/1153166583302.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2

It's not an unbiased account of events but it would be a mistake to dismiss it outright. It is written by someone who clearly loves Beirut and its people.

The writer does not excuse the actions of Hezbollah, although he is very critical of Israel. The article does put the 'collateral damage' into perspective.

[CaptainCrunch]

Good analogy. Let's take it a step further. I agree the skinny kid should get a beat down but should the bully then beat the crap out of not only the skinny kid, but also the girls he's hiding behind, the families of the girls he hiding behind and for good measure burn down their houses too?

Lets keep playing the analogy game. Lets say that the bully's in his house minding his own business and the skinny little kid is throwing rocks through his windows and kills the Bully's sister, and his dog, but the real catcher is that the skinny kid, who's pretty much a bully and a crap disturber in his own right is firing his rocks from his back yard with a high powered sling shot and is shielding himself behind his unaware baby brother while he's firing?

[Lucky boy]

Lets keep playing the analogy game. Lets say that the bully's in his house minding his own business and the skinny little kid is throwing rocks through his windows and kills the Bully's sister, and his dog, but the real catcher is that the skinny kid, who's pretty much a bully and a crap disturber in his own right is firing his rocks from his back yard with a high powered sling shot and is shielding himself behind his unaware baby brother while he's firing?

Yes, we already established that the skinny kid needs a beating. What Isreal is doing is bombing Lebanon 20 years back.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Well, the other Israel/Lebanon thread is now anything but.........so I'll keep using this thread instead.

In latest news, Israel is in Lebanon, and have taken over one of the towns in the south.

Denying that it plans a full-scale ground invasion, the Israeli military entered the southern Lebanese village of Maroun al-Ras on Saturday to establish its "first foothold" in a security buffer along the border, the Israel Defense Forces said.

The Israeli military flushed Hezbollah fighters out of the village and will hold it until it can be handed over to a multinational force or the Lebanese army, the IDF said, adding that the security buffer will hamstring Hezbollah's ability to launch rockets into northern Israel.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/22/mideast/index.html

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Any word on the Lebanese army and their actions? Are they going to enter the fray? How long before Syria comes charging in?

[if.away]

How long before Syria comes charging in?

LOL. Like Assad is retarded enough to do that.

[FlamesAddiction]

Any word on the Lebanese army and their actions? Are they going to enter the fray? How long before Syria comes charging in?

The Lebanese president said that government troops will be used to defend Lebanon if Israelis invade. However, the Israeli ground forces already entered Lebanon and there has been no response, so I think it is all talk. They know that they don't stand a chance.

[Azure]

Hey guys, take a load of this...

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51116

Same guy that calls for assissination of foreign leaders?

[Vulcan]

Hey guys, take a load of this...

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51116

Same guy that calls for assissination of foreign leaders?

I don't follow Pat but I was under the impression that Georgie was his poster boy. Now, not so much.

Sometimes I can't figure out if Bush is just incompetent or his plan is to lead us to the Bible's Armageddon.

[Azure]

I don't follow Pat but I was under the impression that Georgie was his poster boy. Now, not so much.

Sometimes I can't figure out if Bush is just incompetent or his plan is to lead us to the Bible's Armageddon.

:lol:

My thoughts exactly.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Sometimes I can't figure out if Bush is just incompetent or his plan is to lead us to the Bible's Armageddon.

You really have to ask? ;)