2012 MLS Thread

[Montana Moe]

With Montreal coming in this year, I'm hoping having three Canadian teams in the league will garner a bit more interest here on CP.

A bit of off season news, the primary MLS TV contract was awarded to NBC after years with Fox Soccer Channel. Most games will be broadcast on NBC Sports, but a few games will make it on the flagship station. A national audience on broadcast TV is a big step for the league.

HZf6Crc78Zo

A few transactions of note:

David Beckham returns to the LA Galaxy after flirting with QPR and PSG.
Kris Boyd, SPL career goals leader signs with the Portland Timbers.
Tim Ream leaves RBNY for Bolton

Quite a few MLS players are out on loan, have transferred, or have had trials with clubs in bigger leagues this off season. I think that's a positive sign for the quality of the league, as well.

Many new kits coming out this season, following the "new every two" trend in MLS. Here's a link for a good look at all of them: Mao Football (http://maofootball.wordpress.com/2012-mls-kits/)
Personally, I like Chicago's new sponsor.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7034/6723575075_52e7cfd74d_b.jpg


Also, Houston is opening a new soccer specific/primary stadium this year. That will leave New England, DC, Seattle (Vancouver?) as the only clubs without soccer specific stadiums in the league.

Looking forward to a great season!

[Montana Moe]

Philadelphia Union trade top scorer Sebastien Le Toux to Vancouver Whitecaps. No information yet as to the return.

Fox Philly (http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/sports/soccer/Union_Trades_Sebastien_Le_Toux_To_Vancuver_013112)

MLS is still reporting it as a rumor, but his Twitter (https://twitter.com/#!/SebastienLeToux) account says otherwise: Just got traded to Vancouver! Saddest day for me in my Philadelphia Union story.... Still can't believe it

That's a big get for the Whitecaps. They're going to have scoring threats all over.

[Muta]

I'm stoked for this season, I hope to make it out to Vancouver for some Whitecaps games, as well as maybe one in Toronto and San Jose. I love MLS.

[Ozy_Flame]

Le Toux is on Vancouver? Hassli and him will look nice together on the forward positions.

Any word yet if Brian Ching is going to play for the Impact? Where is he now?

[shermanator]

Le Toux is on Vancouver? Hassli and him will look nice together on the forward positions.

Any word yet if Brian Ching is going to play for the Impact? Where is he now?

I heard he's reluctantly joining. Montreal should trade him back to Houston for Hainault..

Also, in the last week Toronto FC have announced the signings of Richard Eckersley, Geovany Caicedo and Juan Aceval to their backline. That definitely strengthens both their D and MF, as Torsten Frings can now be moved back to MF.


Article on Eckersley and Caicedo: http://the11.ca/2012/01/27/eckersley-discusses-tfc-deal-reds-bullish-on-ecuador-defender/
Article on Aceval: http://the11.ca/2012/01/30/another-chilean-heads-to-canada-aceval-inks-with-tfc/

[hulkrogan]

Philly sponsored by Bimbo... haha.. awesome!

[shermanator]

Chicago's new kits are bad ass. Also Toronto FC finally got a good away kit!

http://image-load-balancer.worldsportshops.com/Datafeeds/Graphics/Products/ImageCache/600x600/29144.jpg

[mac_82]

Also here are the dates for the Amway Canadian Championships. The tournament is seeded:

1. TFC
2. Vancouver
3. Edmonton
4. Montreal

I was hoping to see TFC play in Edmonton this year, but Edmonton finished ahead of Montreal in the NASL.



SEMI-FINALS

2 May:
Impact Montréal v Toronto FC – in Montréal
FC Edmonton v Vancouver Whitecaps FC – in Edmonton

9 May:
Toronto FC v Impact Montréal – in Toronto
Vancouver Whitecaps FC v FC Edmonton – in Vancouver

FINAL:

16 May:
Winner of Semi-Final 1 v Winner of Semi-Final 2 – Location TBD

23 May:
Winner of Semi-Final 2 v Winner of Semi-Final 1 – Location TBD

[The Big Chill]

I'm excited for the 'Caps season this year. I think they have made a couple of nice acquisitions for this upcoming season and should be a little bit better off for it. I may just have to make the drive up to Edmonton for that game on May 2nd.

[shermanator]

SEMI-FINALS

2 May:
Impact Montréal v Toronto FC – in Montréal
FC Edmonton v Vancouver Whitecaps FC – in Edmonton


FYI, on the Voyageurs forums, there is a user trying to organize a carpool of Caps fans to go to Edmonton for the May 2 game. I think I'm going with, but to cheer on FC Edmonton (since they actually have Canadian players)

[Muta]

shermanator - from Calgary, is this group that's going?

[mac_82]

FYI, on the Voyageurs forums, there is a user trying to organize a carpool of Caps fans to go to Edmonton for the May 2 game. I think I'm going with, but to cheer on FC Edmonton (since they actually have Canadian players)

Definitely want to check out a game in Edmonton. I will have to see what my work situation is like May 3. It just sucks all the games are on Wednesdays....

[shermanator]

shermanator - from Calgary, is this group that's going?

Correct.

Definitely want to check out a game in Edmonton. I will have to see what my work situation is like May 3. It just sucks all the games are on Wednesdays....

I think they are looking at a same day trip, although it would be late getting back to Calgary.

Here's the 2012 Canadian Championship thread. I've already pseduo-signed up, pending my work commitments. http://www.cansoc.org/showthread.php?43058-2012/page5

If anyone else wants to check out an FC Edmonton game, I can work towards organizing that. IIRC, FC Edmonton has a lot of Sunday afternoon games.

[Jimmy Stang]

It looks like my job will be sending me to Vancouver on June 10th and 11th, which will line up nicely for a Whitecaps game on that Sunday evening. I haven't seen an MLS match live, but I would definitely consider myself a fan of the league and the Whitecaps in particular. I try and watch (or at least record) as many games as I can, so it'll be cool to see a game live.

Despite having to go to Toronto periodically, I have never been able to line up a Toronto FC match that worked with my schedule.

[Montana Moe]

I'm trying to get tickets to Portland/Seattle on June 24. I joined the Timbers season ticket waiting list so I'd have first shot at single game tickets.

I'm not too keen on buying tickets at a premium, but I may have to make an exception for that match.

[fundmark19]

After stumbling across Vancouver Southsider forums. I have decided to try and become a caps/mls fan for the season and going forward. I have never been a huge soccer fan but I am going to try my best.

First order of business which fan group do I join? This also means I need to make some friends in calgary who want to watch games/roadtrip to edmonton for the may 2nd game

[Muta]

fundmark19, good choice to become an MLS fan! Ozy_Flame and I are huge Whitecaps fans, as are some others on this board I think. That said, I'm not knowledgeable enough to know which fan group to join as I don't follow them as much as the Flames, but I went to two games in Vancouver last year alone. Shermanator might be your best hook-up for the May 2nd game in Edmonton.

[shermanator]

After stumbling across Vancouver Southsider forums. I have decided to try and become a caps/mls fan for the season and going forward. I have never been a huge soccer fan but I am going to try my best.

First order of business which fan group do I join? This also means I need to make some friends in calgary who want to watch games/roadtrip to edmonton for the may 2nd game

I'm heading up to the game to meet up with some of the ESG (FC Edmonton supporters group). If you want to tag along, let me know.

[fundmark19]

I may! I don't want to support Edmonton though. That would just be wrong

[J epworth kendal]

I may! I don't want to support Edmonton though. That would just be wrong

I never really watched soccer with any passion until last year, when the Whitecaps became a MLS team. I have really fallen in love with the game and also the team. I got to go to two games live when I was out in Vancouver this summer and the energy of the fans is awesome. I also love that the Southsiders fans have a hate on for the general Vancouver Canuck fan, makes it less weird cheering for a Vancouver team.

[Montana Moe]

A little Valentine's Day video from the Whitecaps to the Timbers. I can feel the love.

Link (http://cdn04b.castfire.com/media/flash/castfire_v3.swf?skintype=simple&file=http://serve.castfire.com/video/869579/869579_2012-02-13-194719.640hq.mp4&sh_id=869579&guid=P9wBs&api=http://api.castfire.com/&skin=http://cdn04b.castfire.com/media/flash/skin4_40px.swf&image=http://serve.castfire.com/video/869579/869579_2012-02-13-194719.jpg&autorelated=false&backcolor=&frontcolor=0xffffff&lightcolor=0x79a7d4&iconfrontcolor=0xffffff&menu=mouse&menu_position=right&hasdownload=false&haswebsite=false&hassubscribe=false&hasrelated=false&hasshare=false&playlistbgcolor=0x000000&duration=0&iconspacefactor=1&item=0&moreselectedcolor=FF9900&volume=100&screencolor=0x00000&start=0&state=IDLE&stretching=uniform&namespace=castfire_player&version=4.1.56&rev=7956&ad_start=1&ad_interval=3&solidControl=true&controlbar=over&usefullscreen=true&gaid=UA-24194569-1%2CUA-15424317-24&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2F)

I remember that night like it was yesterday, they invited the Timbers to their little housewarming party, then Portland proceeded to act like they owned the place.

http://brentdiskin.com/timbers/propaganda/images/ourhouse.jpg

Maybe I'm a bit too excited for the season...


Question: Timbers season ticket packages are shipping from Calgary, what company would be producing them?

[Ozy_Flame]

Ahahahaha . . . . Stupid Portland! Love it!

[Muta]

Hahahaha... I love MLS. That Portland / Seattle / Vancouver rivalry is gonna get even better.

Makes me wish Calgary had an MLS team. :(

[Montana Moe]

Montreal acquired former Fulham/USMNT striker Eddie Johnson, then promptly traded him to Seattle for Lamar Neagle and Mike Fucito.

Two decent players for a guy that lasted a half day with Pumas before getting cut for being out of shape. Sounders fans are less than thrilled.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/02/17/montreal-send-johnson-seattle-neagle-fucito

[seattleflamer]

Montreal acquired former Fulham/USMNT striker Eddie Johnson, then promptly traded him to Seattle for Lamar Neagle and Mike Fucito.

Two decent players for a guy that lasted a half day with Pumas before getting cut for being out of shape. Sounders fans are less than thrilled.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/02/17/montreal-send-johnson-seattle-neagle-fucito


Johnson has unbelievable talent but I think Montreal won this one with Neagle. He had a break out year this past season. On other hand, Sigi and Hanauer are incredibly shrewd in finding talent and assembling a quality squad.

[Montana Moe]

I know he's had some good history with Sigi, so it wouldn't surprise me if Johnson had a good season.

I like Neagle as well. I'm really hoping Zakuani gets back to form, though it sounds like he won't be 100% for some time.

It sounds like Kris Boyd's paperwork went through, so he should be training with Portland some time this week. The Timbers signed MF Franck Songo'o, a former Barcelona product. He's been banging some great crosses in the preseason, hopefully it'll stay that way.

[Montana Moe]

New Timbers striker Kris Boyd does a bit of an "exit interview" with the Scottish Sun on his way out of the country...

I like his attitude:
"There will always be people who point to what I DON'T do. That's just the way it is, but my goals record stands up against anybody. Listen, I know for a fact there are better players out there. But what I'll do is score.
"Thinking about it, in some ways it's my goals record that kills me as a player.
"When people look at someone who scores a lot they think he should be an exceptional player. I'm first to admit I'm not.
"I know there have been games when I've been posted missing, and yet walked off the pitch with the match ball.
"But while people can argue I can't do this or that, no one can say I don't score enough goals as a striker."

[Montana Moe]

Single game tickets for the Timbers went on sale this morning. I logged on as soon as they went on sale and still wasn't fast enough to get tickets vs. Seattle.

I did get tickets vs. L.A. and the August match vs. Vancouver. Looking forward to the madness!

[shermanator]

Sportsnet is picking up 6 TFC games in 2012. Here is a link to the TV sched for those who follow the team. Looks like I can get all but one game!

http://the11.ca/2012/02/24/sportsnet-returns-to-the-toronto-fc-broadcast-picture/

[emti]

Has any one heard of or know of a possibility of an MLS team coming to calgary? I would love to see them come to Calgary!

[Jimmy Stang]

Has any one heard of or know of a possibility of an MLS team coming to calgary? I would love to see them come to Calgary!

Unfortunately Calgary doesn't have a great track record for professional soccer, so I'd have to think that it'll be a long time, if ever, that we see top tier soccer in this city.

I agree that it would be great, however, but a lot has to happen first. A reasonable place to play (McMahon is too big and terrible for watching soccer) would be a good starting point, but I'm not sure who would front the cash for that.

[Matty81]

The next logical step for a city with Calgary's size and diversity would be the NASL, the league below MLS that Montreal just moved up from. The last group even started lower, in the PDL to really establish a bedrock.

Edmonton and Ottawa (expansion next year I think) have teams in the NASL, there has been a lot of talk Hamilton will be joining shortly with that new stadium.

Unfortunately, there is no suitable facility in Calgary, which is what caused the last group to fail. A group needs land somewhere central they could grow (or not) as demand required like they did in Montreal, from 14,000 to 20,000 when they stepped up to MLS. I think even 6-8,000 would be OK to start with in Calgary.

You're talking about needing someone to invest big dollars though. Calgary is really lacking a medium sized stadium since Mewata got leveled to build that skatepark.

[shermanator]

Mewata would've been a great place for a soccer team to play. I don't recall how dumpy it was however...

I hope FC Edmonton is successful in growing support for the sport up north, so that Calgary investors could see the success, and get a team started here, which would come with a natural rivalry.

[Ozy_Flame]

Edmonton will get an MLS team long before Calgary does, and that's assuming they even bother to grow soccer big enough to attract a franchise.

Calgary has good, grassroots soccer support but nowhere near what is needed to sustain a professional soccer team. We're better off getting an Arena Football League team first since football is a much more popular sport around here.

[shermanator]

Edmonton will get an MLS team long before Calgary does, and that's assuming they even bother to grow soccer big enough to attract a franchise.

Calgary has good, grassroots soccer support but nowhere near what is needed to sustain a professional soccer team. We're better off getting an Arena Football League team first since football is a much more popular sport around here.

IMO, neither Calgary or Edmonton will get to MLS, ever. It's NASL or bust for them. I think an NASL team in Calgary can succeed if done right. Without a stadium, it will be wrong from the beginning.

FC Edmonton struggled at the gate last year (averaging just over 1800 a game) because of playing on a university football field. I'm curious to see how they do in their second year, as they've moved to a new field (although where exactly has not been announced yet)

[Addick]

The next logical step for a city with Calgary's size and diversity would be the NASL, the league below MLS that Montreal just moved up from. The last group even started lower, in the PDL to really establish a bedrock.

And that is where they found most, if not all, of their success.


Unfortunately, there is no suitable facility in Calgary, which is what caused the last group to fail. A group needs land somewhere central they could grow (or not) as demand required like they did in Montreal, from 14,000 to 20,000 when they stepped up to MLS. I think even 6-8,000 would be OK to start with in Calgary.

One of the benefits of a PDL club is that the owner can much more easily ask the government for funding due to the fact that the club is an amateur organisation. Although the stadium would be smaller, it would also be much cheaper.


Edmonton will get an MLS team long before Calgary does, and that's assuming they even bother to grow soccer big enough to attract a franchise.

Calgary has good, grassroots soccer support but nowhere near what is needed to sustain a professional soccer team. We're better off getting an Arena Football League team first since football is a much more popular sport around here.

I don't think it is a problem of Calgary not being able to support a professional club but rather Alberta only being able to support one. When they were by themselves, the Storm and Mustangs probably had as much success as FC Edmonton.

[Thunderball]

We're better off getting an Arena Football League team first since football is a much more popular sport around here.

This is a common misconception. Its one I hear all the time in Ontario from all the "experts" from Toronto. The idea that Calgary is a blue-collar football/hockey only crowd is a tired and outdated stereotype, and with the massive population growth of immigrants, inaccurate to boot. Reality is, hockey and football are the only real "major" league sports that have survived more than 5 years.

If you can get 2000 people to watch PDL soccer, and 2000 people to attend a poorly advertised friendly between Brazilian reserves and a makeshift Calgary Select squad, there's a base and appetite. I was just at a world club tournament in Detroit with River Plate, Pumas and two Hungarian Div 1 teams that was heavily publicized that did worse, and in the Superdome no less. Yet, broke and oversaturated (NHL, MLB, NBA, NFL, NCAAx2) Detroit is a better MLS market than Calgary?

Anyway, the CFL is about as niche a league as it gets. The main reason it does so well in Calgary is simply that there's nothing else even remotely close to major league in Calgary from when the Flames hang them up in April-June (lets hope, lol) to September. Baseball is a joke here, Basketball is non-existent, and the soccer entries that have tried have been too mickey-mouse or placed in too improper a venue to ever be taken seriously.

Which brings me to the two real reasons we haven't seen top division soccer since the Boomers (11000 average attendance in 1980 for a city of ~500,000 is pretty good, and would be in MLS range today, only reasons they folded was Skalbania being broke, and that league being in a death spiral). Sadly, these two reasons also explain why we may not again for some time.

1. Stadia. McMahon Stadium is suitable for the wrecking ball, and little else, unless 30-100 million dollars is found to bring it up to code. It works for the CFL (for now) because of the niche nature of that league, and the die-hard attitude of its supporters. But in 3-5 years, when McMahon is the lousiest stadium left, that will likely change. Hellard and Foothills are too small at ~2000 each. But, rumor is FC Edmonton's stadium plan is to play at Clarke (1200 seats) and add about 2000 temp seating... so Edmonton may be setting a precedent that allows these two facilities to be in play for a Calgary NASL franchise. Except for reason 2...

2. Calgary is too big for minor league sports, but too small for major league sports. This is an affluent city with a lot of money, and with ~1.5 million people within an hour's drive, big enough to support NHL, MLS and CFL. (Hitmen are the exception because of Hockey's prominence in Canadian culture and psyche) Trouble is, Calgary would also be one of the two smallest MLS centres, with Salt Lake City. All the previous soccer entries have been in weak leagues, or owned by people with no money/equity, who had to fold before the team could establish a fan base. I suspect NASL may also be too "minor league" to be accepted by the Calgary media and sports fan. MLS would be embraced. Trouble is, does the MLS accept "small fish" Calgary in a big pond, or does NASL accept a large and affluent market that may not appreciate the small pond of Division 2 soccer.

Edmonton lacks the corporate backing for MLS, I suspect they don't get a serious look unless they market themselves as "FC Alberta," and make a serious effort to be a shared team with several matches in Calgary. Only way there's MLS in Calgary is also as a shared team with similar treatment to Edmonton, and in a refurbished/rebuilt McMahon.

NASL needs more time to mold into a truly viable league before a Calgary entry can be considered. It barely works in Edmonton, and that is in a much less "sports snobbish" city.

[Ozy_Flame]

Edmonton lacks the corporate backing for MLS, I suspect they don't get a serious look unless they market themselves as "FC Alberta," and make a serious effort to be a shared team with several matches in Calgary. Only way there's MLS in Calgary is also as a shared team with similar treatment to Edmonton, and in a refurbished/rebuilt McMahon.


I don't disagree with the Calgary being too large for minor pro / too small for major leagues, but I can't see an "FC Alberta" or a similar variant working. Sharing a team between Calgary and Edmonton would fracture and inhibit a very fragile fanbase - Alberta fans are far more fickle with their urban-centric rivalries than say, the "Saskatchewan Roughriders" sort of scenario. We have different NHL, CFL and various other teams that, over the course of sports history, has created a dichotomy-based relationship between two cities that IMO would not receive a joint-team very well.

Add that to the fact that Calgary would get what - 8 to 10 games tops on a home field, and you have a fan base that barely gets to see a home game every year, has a distant relationship with the players and the team brand, and can't easily go up to Edmonton to support the squad due to distance and time.

"Team Alberta" works for curling because its a niche sport; the same cannot be said for soccer. There is just too much rivalry/territorial/extreme marketing and management issues to go that route.

[Muta]

I`m still in awe at the fact that a replacement stadium for McMahon isn`t seriously being considered at this point in time.

This city has a tremendous base of wealth, and a new McMahon stadium - an INDOOR stadium, mind you, would be the logical next step for the Stamps, the University of Calgary and all subsequent events you could have in there.

MLS could become a viable option in Calgary once a roofed stadium is built. Our climate is just not favourable towards soccer to have a team play outside. Soccer WILL succeed when people know they can watch a professional franchise inside.

Regina is getting ready to break ground for their new stadium, and I`m still baffled Calgary can`t get their act in order. We badly need a new football-soccer-concert stadium. We have money, just no one is prepared to take the next serious step.

[Thunderball]

I don't disagree with the Calgary being too large for minor pro / too small for major leagues, but I can't see an "FC Alberta" or a similar variant working. Sharing a team between Calgary and Edmonton would fracture and inhibit a very fragile fanbase - Alberta fans are far more fickle with their urban-centric rivalries than say, the "Saskatchewan Roughriders" sort of scenario. We have different NHL, CFL and various other teams that, over the course of sports history, has created a dichotomy-based relationship between two cities that IMO would not receive a joint-team very well.

Add that to the fact that Calgary would get what - 8 to 10 games tops on a home field, and you have a fan base that barely gets to see a home game every year, has a distant relationship with the players and the team brand, and can't easily go up to Edmonton to support the squad due to distance and time.

"Team Alberta" works for curling because its a niche sport; the same cannot be said for soccer. There is just too much rivalry/territorial/extreme marketing and management issues to go that route.

You're right, its an imperfect solution, but a combined market of ~3 million (capable of buying merchandise, tickets and watching on TV), that has significant disposable income, competitive taxation and no major league sports saturation would make the MLS take note far more than either city individually (providing a reasonable business plan). A 2.5 hour drive is distant, but I think if most are weekend games, it could be overcome to an extent. It would take some getting used to though for Edmontonians and Calgarians going to each other's stadiums as fans of the same team, but I think the Albertan identity would be played up to overcome that somewhat.

Personally, I think the Edmonton-Calgary rivalry has diminished quite a bit anyway. For example, I would argue that Vancouver has become the far more hated team in hockey, and Saskatchewan has become the more hated team in football. Who thought you'd see Edmonton and Calgary co-host something like the World Junior Hockey Championships, something I dare say would be unthinkable 20 years ago.

I think good marketing could overcome that issue by emphasizing that neither city is a big fan of Vancouver or Toronto, and promoting rivalries with them. Ironically, the WHA Edmonton Oilers started out as the "Alberta Oilers," and a team meant to be shared between the two cities. So the idea isn't without precedent.

As for management, the team would have to have its head office in one of the two cities, and very little initial infrastructure in the other, save for a ticket office and merchandising hub.

For games it would essentially be a larger scale version of what Toronto does with the Buffalo Bills. Lets pretend "Alberta FC" is MLS' 20th franchise for simpler numbers. They'd play ~40 games per season. So 20 home games, 15 in Calgary, and 5 in Edmonton, or vice versa. Or more simply perhaps, all league games in one city, and all cup games in the other.

Its a hail mary proposal for sure, but I think without combining, both cities may never see MLS (so there would never be a rivalry anyway... either just Edmonton, or just Calgary with no support from the other city). Should an FC Alberta come into being, fans would catch on to the fact that its either going to be Team Alberta v. Vancouver, Toronto, etc., having to cheer for far flung cities like Vancouver, Seattle or Toronto, or losing out on the only other attainable major sports league for Alberta.

Frankly, I'm not sure Calgary sports fans (or sports media) will ever be content with being in an inferior division to Montreal, Vancouver and Toronto. Calgary may be the distant 4th market in Canada by size, but its also by far the richest per capita which allows the city to punch above its weight a fair amount... the too big for minor/too small for major issue that we agree on.

Having FC Edmonton puts Edmonton a little ahead in the race for a team. While their owners talk MLS long term, I don't see them getting on the MLS radar without being able to drag in Calgary as a secondary market, or co-host. (As a side note, I'm sort of shocked that FC Edmonton has made no attempt to build relations in Calgary, with no marketing in Calgary for weekend trips to see pro soccer, or even friendlies against AMSL teams, or Calgary United FC of the extremely mickey mouse CMISL.)

Frankly, it's MLS only to get the casual fan and corporate fan, and anything below that being at odds with the culture of major league or bust... but I don't think that means Calgary isn't a viable soccer market, just means anything less requires a big plan, smart moves and a lot of money relative to the division (and probably government assistance on bringing a stadium up to code).

[Thunderball]

I`m still in awe at the fact that a replacement stadium for McMahon isn`t seriously being considered at this point in time.

This city has a tremendous base of wealth, and a new McMahon stadium - an INDOOR stadium, mind you, would be the logical next step for the Stamps, the University of Calgary and all subsequent events you could have in there.

MLS could become a viable option in Calgary once a roofed stadium is built. Our climate is just not favourable towards soccer to have a team play outside. Soccer WILL succeed when people know they can watch a professional franchise inside.

Regina is getting ready to break ground for their new stadium, and I`m still baffled Calgary can`t get their act in order. We badly need a new football-soccer-concert stadium. We have money, just no one is prepared to take the next serious step.

Agreed 100%. Its positively shameful. However, the government would have to pay for the majority of it, and you know how people will lose their minds if the City of Calgary and Government of Alberta wrote cheques to build a new UofC/Stampeders/future MLS/concert Stadium with enclosable roof. The University can't afford to contribute much, the Stampeders are a glorified minor league team worth a fraction of the Flames, so they can't contribute much either. Outside sponsors don't tend to emerge until construction is underway, so that really leaves the Government.

[Muta]

I know (almost as fact) the U of C has no money to spend right now, and you`re right - people would be up in arms if governments spent money on a project like this.

Funny thing is, for me personally... I`d be okay with my taxes going to this project. Not everything the government spends money on is a bad thing, and I`d be willing to pay a bit more per year to make it happen. Then again, I`m probably in the minority.

What needs to happen is a collective campaign on many levels to see something built out of necessity. Sadly enough, I`m actually hoping that the seats (obviously with no people in them) collapse or something, or become unfit for use, in order to force a developer`s hand to bringing a collaborative effort to the table and get people thinking about a new facility... if that`s what it unfortunately takes.

Maybe one day when I get off my duff and start a multi-million dollar company, as a soccer fan I`ll invest in a stadium in Calgary.

On a serious note though... we should be watching Regina VERY closely right now.

EDIT: Id like to see a 30,000 seat indoor stadium built. We dont need 50,000... Im sure 30,000 would be ideal. Hell... even 25,000 with room for temporary additional seating inside when necessary.

[shermanator]

Agreed 100%. Its positively shameful. However, the government would have to pay for the majority of it, and you know how people will lose their minds if the City of Calgary and Government of Alberta wrote cheques to build a new UofC/Stampeders/future MLS/concert Stadium with enclosable roof. The University can't afford to contribute much, the Stampeders are a glorified minor league team worth a fraction of the Flames, so they can't contribute much either. Outside sponsors don't tend to emerge until construction is underway, so that really leaves the Government.

IIRC Nenshi floated the idea of a 1% sales tax to fund projects such as stadiums, libraries, transit, etc. Would bring in ~350 mil annually. Building a new football and soccer stadium would be funded from taxes such as these.

Personally, I would love the idea of such a sales tax (1% on everything isn't enough for me to notice), but I can see a lot of people coming on board with the idea. I can already see the Rick Bell article now...

[Ozy_Flame]

FYI, there is a rather significant connection to football for Calgary. Brett Wilson, oilpatch superhero and Dragon's Den star, owns a chunk of the Derby County Rams, a team in the Football League Championship. He has said before he wants to promote the game in North America wherever possible.

Rather than an "FC Alberta" or MLS team here (which is years and years away IMO), why not be a feeder team in the NASL to Derby County? This would be a similar scheme to what Chivas USA is to Guadalajara. I say start small, bring some international footballers here, and even a few exhibition games against NASL opponents. If I'm not mistaken, Wilson was interested in bringing DC out to Calgary for training camps, so why not make it a foothold to grow soccer in Calgary?

Wilson also has the bucks and the interest in the sport to possibly head up some sort of consortium of investors to get things moving in Calgary - which I believe is the only viable solution to getting a new stadium (multiple investors with various stakes in new stadium revenue).

[Thunderball]

FYI, there is a rather significant connection to football for Calgary. Brett Wilson, oilpatch superhero and Dragon's Den star, owns a chunk of the Derby County Rams, a team in the Football League Championship. He has said before he wants to promote the game in North America wherever possible.

Rather than an "FC Alberta" or MLS team here (which is years and years away IMO), why not be a feeder team in the NASL to Derby County? This would be a similar scheme to what Chivas USA is to Guadalajara. I say start small, bring some international footballers here, and even a few exhibition games against NASL opponents. If I'm not mistaken, Wilson was interested in bringing DC out to Calgary for training camps, so why not make it a foothold to grow soccer in Calgary?

Wilson also has the bucks and the interest in the sport to possibly head up some sort of consortium of investors to get things moving in Calgary - which I believe is the only viable solution to getting a new stadium (multiple investors with various stakes in new stadium revenue).

I would be one of the first in line for season tickets for "Calgary Rams FC" and would probably adopt DC into my soccer fold as well as a result, but would 5000 other people do the same? Brett Wilson's star power would definitely lend some credibility to the venture, and I think an upgraded Foothills or Hellard would suit this team fine. It would be great if he was able to make some waves in this regard.

The purists in this city would take anything reasonable, and that would suit the bill. I think MLS would get the casual fans, but baby steps.

[Ozy_Flame]

Anyone else taking solace in the fact that as the Flames wind down their hockey season, MLS soccer is ramping up? I'm looking forward to watching all three Canadian teams. Will be a nice segue from what looks to be another missed playoffs from the boys in Red (yes, I know I'm pessimistic about this whole but MLS is brightening my spirits!)

[fundmark19]

I am getting really excited. Whitecaps seem to be doing things right. They scheduled their home opener against montreal as a day game right before nucks vs habs game that night. That would be one hell of a day as a sports fan in vancouver. The stadiums are litterally a 2 min walk from each other and there is a costco mid way between the 2 where you can stop and grab a 1.50 hotdog and pop for a between game snack!

[Montana Moe]

Over 16k for a preseason game tonight in Portland, not too shabby. 1-1 draw against San Jose, but they scored both goals, which is nice.

Looking forward to seeing them against Swedish side AIK on Sunday.

[valo403]

1. Stadia. McMahon Stadium is suitable for the wrecking ball, and little else, unless 30-100 million dollars is found to bring it up to code. It works for the CFL (for now) because of the niche nature of that league, and the die-hard attitude of its supporters. But in 3-5 years, when McMahon is the lousiest stadium left, that will likely change. Hellard and Foothills are too small at ~2000 each. But, rumor is FC Edmonton's stadium plan is to play at Clarke (1200 seats) and add about 2000 temp seating... so Edmonton may be setting a precedent that allows these two facilities to be in play for a Calgary NASL franchise. Except for reason

Unless the stadium has deteriorated dramatically in the last few years I think you're severely overstating things. It's by no means a nice stadium, and lacks pretty much anything that would be considered fancy, but it serves its purpose quite effectively.

You need to remember what that purpose is, 9-10 CFL games a year and a handful of U of C games. You can't honestly tell me that an NFL style stadium is needed to serve that purpose, that would be one of the most absurd financial wastes I can imagine. In order to justify something like that you'd need to dramatically expand the use, and honestly what additional use are you expecting?

An MLS franchise would fit the bill, but that puts us in a chicken and egg scenario and I'm not convinced that Calgary is an MLS city regardless of the stadium and I sure as hell wouldn't be funding a stadium on that basis.

Concerts shouldn't be a consideration, the one or two stadium tours that may roll through each year should be seen as a bonus, not a basis.

If you look at the stadiums used by the vast majority of NCAA programs you'd find that they aren't all that different from McMahon. Some have recent press/luxury box additions, but the base structure is still the cement slab look and the concourses are shuttered holes in said cement slabs. And these are facilities catering to 2-3x more people per event.

[SuperMatt18]

IIRC Nenshi floated the idea of a 1% sales tax to fund projects such as stadiums, libraries, transit, etc. Would bring in ~350 mil annually. Building a new football and soccer stadium would be funded from taxes such as these.

Personally, I would love the idea of such a sales tax (1% on everything isn't enough for me to notice), but I can see a lot of people coming on board with the idea. I can already see the Rick Bell article now...

This make some sense but it would never be passed because it would still be a hard sell to use that money on stadiums, etc while proposing cuts to the police force.

I still think the goverment of Alberta missed on opportunity to implement at 2% PST when the federal goverment decreased the GST to 5%.

It would have kept us with no real change to what the province was used to paying and it would have helped raise some money to improve the funding for education and poilce services in the province.

[Thunderball]

Unless the stadium has deteriorated dramatically in the last few years I think you're severely overstating things. It's by no means a nice stadium, and lacks pretty much anything that would be considered fancy, but it serves its purpose quite effectively.

You need to remember what that purpose is, 9-10 CFL games a year and a handful of U of C games. You can't honestly tell me that an NFL style stadium is needed to serve that purpose, that would be one of the most absurd financial wastes I can imagine. In order to justify something like that you'd need to dramatically expand the use, and honestly what additional use are you expecting?

An MLS franchise would fit the bill, but that puts us in a chicken and egg scenario and I'm not convinced that Calgary is an MLS city regardless of the stadium and I sure as hell wouldn't be funding a stadium on that basis.

Concerts shouldn't be a consideration, the one or two stadium tours that may roll through each year should be seen as a bonus, not a basis.

If you look at the stadiums used by the vast majority of NCAA programs you'd find that they aren't all that different from McMahon. Some have recent press/luxury box additions, but the base structure is still the cement slab look and the concourses are shuttered holes in said cement slabs. And these are facilities catering to 2-3x more people per event.

You're right, I did take a little dramatic license. Its likely not going to collapse any time soon.

However, is a 50 year old, spartan, outdated facility with inadequate washroom facilities, narrow passages, bench seating and lousy concession facilities actually acceptable for the richest and 4th largest metro in Canada? Its at the end of its lifecycle and Calgary needs a facility that recognizes that our climate is not compatible for sitting outside unprotected from March to May and October to December. (even that varies)

It suits the CFL... today. But what in 5 years when McMahon becomes, bar none, the worst facility in the CFL West, and second worst in the league (unless Montreal moves to a different facility). Hamilton, Winnipeg and Regina are all getting new government funded facilities. Vancouver's just got a facelift. Rogers and Commonwealth are decades newer and better built. If Winnipeg can build a new NHL arena without a tenant, surely Calgary can build a 30-40k facility in the same caliber of BC Place?

Adding more attractions would be the basis of a new facility, be it MLS, NASL, Canadian National Mens and Womens Teams, concerts, outdoor lacrosse, or any other sport. Right now, McMahon CAN NOT do more than it does, not that they wouldn't like to... save for the random event like the Heritage Classic where the NHL/Flames will drop a pile of money (wasnt it something like $1m) to temporarily raise it to minimum acceptable standard.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Hamilton, Winnipeg and Regina are all getting new government funded facilities. .

Do you know to what extent? It is my understanding that none of them got Federal money. I'm not even sure if Regina or Winnipeg are getting Provincial money.

Hamilton I'd imagine got some public money but isn't part of their upgrade for the Commonwealth games?

[Thunderball]

Do you know to what extent? It is my understanding that none of them got Federal money. I'm not even sure if Regina or Winnipeg are getting Provincial money.

Hamilton I'd imagine got some public money but isn't part of their upgrade for the Commonwealth games?

Quick glance is that the Feds are not involved in Regina or Winnipeg, but the provincial governments are involved in both.

Regina's is a $400m P3 project, and I wasnt able to determine anything more than municipal and provincial governments were involved.

Winnipeg's is a cheaper $190m project between UofM, City of Winnipeg, the Blue Bombers and the Manitoba Government. Winnipeg Blue Bombers are paying back $85 million and the provincial and city levels of government are splitting the rest of the costs.

Hamilton's is definitely government funded, like you said, linked to Pan-Am/Commonwealth bids.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Quick glance is that the Feds are not involved in Regina or Winnipeg, but the provincial governments are involved in both.

Regina's is a $400m P3 project, and I wasnt able to determine anything more than municipal and provincial governments were involved.

Winnipeg's is a cheaper $190m project between UofM, City of Winnipeg, the Blue Bombers and the Manitoba Government. Winnipeg Blue Bombers are paying back $85 million and the provincial and city levels of government are splitting the rest of the costs.

Hamilton's is definitely government funded, like you said, linked to Pan-Am/Commonwealth bids.


Right, Pan Am not Commonwealth. Unless it is both. I knew it was one of those second tier games.

[Thunderball]

Right, Pan Am not Commonwealth. Unless it is both. I knew it was one of those second tier games.

I think Hamilton is actually bidding for both... but its unlikely they'd get more than one.

But no reason Calgary can't build now, and snipe at least a second tier game, if not Olympics again, in the next 10-20 years using that facility.

[valo403]

You're right, I did take a little dramatic license. Its likely not going to collapse any time soon.

However, is a 50 year old, spartan, outdated facility with inadequate washroom facilities, narrow passages, bench seating and lousy concession facilities actually acceptable for the richest and 4th largest metro in Canada? Its at the end of its lifecycle and Calgary needs a facility that recognizes that our climate is not compatible for sitting outside unprotected from March to May and October to December. (even that varies)

It suits the CFL... today. But what in 5 years when McMahon becomes, bar none, the worst facility in the CFL West, and second worst in the league (unless Montreal moves to a different facility). Hamilton, Winnipeg and Regina are all getting new government funded facilities. Vancouver's just got a facelift. Rogers and Commonwealth are decades newer and better built. If Winnipeg can build a new NHL arena without a tenant, surely Calgary can build a 30-40k facility in the same caliber of BC Place?

Adding more attractions would be the basis of a new facility, be it MLS, NASL, Canadian National Mens and Womens Teams, concerts, outdoor lacrosse, or any other sport. Right now, McMahon CAN NOT do more than it does, not that they wouldn't like to... save for the random event like the Heritage Classic where the NHL/Flames will drop a pile of money (wasnt it something like $1m) to temporarily raise it to minimum acceptable standard.

Surely Calgary can, but it would be stupid to do so.

What's the upside of that massive expenditure? A pipe dream MLS team? An occasional national team game? One or two concerts every couple of years? Lacrosse? (Seriously? Lacrosse?). There is quite simply no need for Calgary to have such a stadium, it would be an absolutely massive waste of money.

It needs some upgrades, the washroom facilities for instance, but I think you're completely out of touch with what passes for a solid football stadium in North America. This is not an NFL stadium. It shouldn't be. Look at the stadiums that the majority of NCAA programs play in. Look at the Big House, Spartan Stadium or Notre Dame Stadium. All of those are much larger and much higher profile, and all of them have similar quality washroom facilities, concession facilities, almost exclusively bench seating and the other qualities that somehow make McMahon completely unacceptable. The only real difference with those stadiums is the press/luxury box component, and I'm not sure that's really applicable to a CFL stadium. You'll also note that all of them are located in climates that aren't all that different than Calgary.

The only argument I see being made is 'hey, they got a new shiny thing so we should too'. That's simply a poor basis for spending hundreds of millions of dollars.

[Thunderball]

Surely Calgary can, but it would be stupid to do so.

What's the upside of that massive expenditure? A pipe dream MLS team? An occasional national team game? One or two concerts every couple of years? Lacrosse? (Seriously? Lacrosse?). There is quite simply no need for Calgary to have such a stadium, it would be an absolutely massive waste of money.

It needs some upgrades, the washroom facilities for instance, but I think you're completely out of touch with what passes for a solid football stadium in North America. This is not an NFL stadium. It shouldn't be. Look at the stadiums that the majority of NCAA programs play in. Look at the Big House, Spartan Stadium or Notre Dame Stadium. All of those are much larger and much higher profile, and all of them have similar quality washroom facilities, concession facilities, almost exclusively bench seating and the other qualities that somehow make McMahon completely unacceptable. The only real difference with those stadiums is the press/luxury box component, and I'm not sure that's really applicable to a CFL stadium. You'll also note that all of them are located in climates that aren't all that different than Calgary.

The only argument I see being made is 'hey, they got a new shiny thing so we should too'. That's simply a poor basis for spending hundreds of millions of dollars.

By that logic, why build a new central library? The Downtown one serves it purpose, same with Central Memorial and the dozens of other locations... books are going the way of the do-do anyway. Plus, other cities have much worse library systems. Why does Calgary need a fancy shiny new one?

Furthermore, why waste $100m on Cantos Music Centre? Surely the existing facilities attract enough musicians, since the arts and culture scene is growing without it. Most other cities don't have one. Why does Calgary need a fancy, shiny facility that will never repay its cost?

My point is, top venues attract top performers, top events and increase city/province perception. So lets say all $200 million buys is a new soccer tenant and 6 concerts a year. That's roughly 20 more events than before, and the economic spin-off therein. That's a greater exposure to sports and arts that Calgary did not have before. Plus, the existing 10 CFL games and 12 CIS games are now that much more lucrative, comfortable and marketable.

These things are important to a society. Sports carry the stigma of being owned my billionaires and played by millionaires, but the fact is these facilities are good for cities. For example, the Winnipeg facility will be used year round for recreational uses, as well as the Bombers, the Bisons and numerous other events its bound to attract.

If I'm out of touch, Regina and Winnipeg must be extremely out of touch. Much smaller centres are building vastly superior stadia to your "north american model" for CFL, CIS and potentially concerts and NASL usages. Even the upgrades that you admit are necessary will likely run in the tens of millions. Do enough of the upgrade wishlist, and you'll soon hit Winnipeg's Stadium pricetag. While not the best comparable, BC Place's renovation cost $563 million. I suspect a real McMahon facelift consisting of more than paint and modular buildings would be in the $100 million + range.

The issue isn't that the new McMahon won't have enough tenants... the issue is the current McMahon can't take on more due to its age and spartan nature. Even the Stampeders are crying foul about it.

[mac_82]

43500 seats have been sold to the Champions League match between TFC and LA. I wish I was going! This could be the first year I don't attend a TFC game in 5 years :whaa:

[seattleflamer]

43500 seats have been sold to the Champions League match between TFC and LA. I wish I was going! This could be the first year I don't attend a TFC game in 5 years :whaa:

That is awesome to hear! Toronto fans have been very patient w their team. I hope they do well this year except when they play the Sounders :)

[valo403]

By that logic, why build a new central library? The Downtown one serves it purpose, same with Central Memorial and the dozens of other locations... books are going the way of the do-do anyway. Plus, other cities have much worse library systems. Why does Calgary need a fancy shiny new one?

Furthermore, why waste $100m on Cantos Music Centre? Surely the existing facilities attract enough musicians, since the arts and culture scene is growing without it. Most other cities don't have one. Why does Calgary need a fancy, shiny facility that will never repay its cost?

My point is, top venues attract top performers, top events and increase city/province perception. So lets say all $200 million buys is a new soccer tenant and 6 concerts a year. That's roughly 20 more events than before, and the economic spin-off therein. That's a greater exposure to sports and arts that Calgary did not have before. Plus, the existing 10 CFL games and 12 CIS games are now that much more lucrative, comfortable and marketable.

These things are important to a society. Sports carry the stigma of being owned my billionaires and played by millionaires, but the fact is these facilities are good for cities. For example, the Winnipeg facility will be used year round for recreational uses, as well as the Bombers, the Bisons and numerous other events its bound to attract.

If I'm out of touch, Regina and Winnipeg must be extremely out of touch. Much smaller centres are building vastly superior stadia to your "north american model" for CFL, CIS and potentially concerts and NASL usages. Even the upgrades that you admit are necessary will likely run in the tens of millions. Do enough of the upgrade wishlist, and you'll soon hit Winnipeg's Stadium pricetag. While not the best comparable, BC Place's renovation cost $563 million. I suspect a real McMahon facelift consisting of more than paint and modular buildings would be in the $100 million + range.

The issue isn't that the new McMahon won't have enough tenants... the issue is the current McMahon can't take on more due to its age and spartan nature. Even the Stampeders are crying foul about it.

First of all, the comparison to a library is laughable. If you can't grasp the different impacts that a library and a stadium used for professional sports 15 times a year have on a city I'm not sure there's any point having a conversation with you. It's such an absurd strawman argument, and you know it.

The hi-lighted paragraph demonstrates why you think this would be a good idea, because you live in a fantasy land.

First, $200mil for a 40,000 seat domed stadium? Are you expecting to use volunteer labor in the construction or something? That figure is completely out to lunch. LiveStrong Park in KC cost $200mil and seat under 20,000 and is open air. The covered stadium proposed in Regina would cost $400mil, so unless you've got an explanation for that $200mil figure I'd say you're intentionally skewing the picture to suit your argument.

Second, you continue to base this around the addition of a fantasy MLS team when there is absolutely nothing to indicate that Calgary is a desirable market for the MLS. It seems as if you're drawing on a field of dreams style 'if you build it they will come' idea, unfortunately this isn't a movie and there aren't going to be any ghosts strolling out of corn fields. Even if the goal is to attract an MLS team, a $400mil+ 40,000 seat domed stadium is massive overkill.

Third, 6 concerts a year? Again, I'm not sure where you're coming up with these numbers but they seem to be created as a means to make your argument look stronger than it is. There have been a grand total of 6 concerts at Commonwealth since 2007. Unless U2, Bon Jovi, Kenny Chesney, and the handful of other acts that do stadium tours are all planning to tour every year, and include a city that is already off a lot of bands touring plans due to its location, that number is a complete fantasy. You would be lucky to add one additional concert to the city each year.

As for it making CFL games more marketable (I'm not even going to address the idea that this would make CIS football marketable, it's a small time sport with a fanbase consisting predominantly of friends and family) that's all well and good, but why exactly are taxpayer dollars being used to make a professional sports team more marketable? In a situation where a new building is an absolute must, such as with the Flames, I don't have an issue with some taxpayer funding, but that's not the case here.

Now let's get to the "these facilities are good for cities" argument. I don't disagree, but how exactly would this new facility make the lives of Calgarians better? McMahon already offers plenty of recreational use, does this facility somehow expand that? I suppose putting in a dome would do that, but if the payoff is recreational use you could achieve that same result at a minuscule fraction of the cost.

I honestly question whether or not you've ever been to another football stadium in North America. I've been to dozens, and the only ones that aren't pretty similar to McMahon are NFL stadiums. The CFL is not the NFL. The revenue streams aren't there, the demand isn't there, the need isn't there. Again, look at the stadiums utilized by some of the most profitable NCAA football programs in the country. They are strikingly similar to McMahon, with the only real differences being the size and the enhanced high end/press areas.

The bottom line is that McMahon can't really take on more, but it doesn't need to, not for that price tag. A single concert? A pipe dream MLS team? Padded seats for the parents of Dinos players? All for the low, low price of $500mil.

[wpgflamesfan]

I honestly question whether or not you've ever been to another football stadium in North America. I've been to dozens, and the only ones that aren't pretty similar to McMahon are NFL stadiums. The CFL is not the NFL. The revenue streams aren't there, the demand isn't there, the need isn't there. Again, look at the stadiums utilized by some of the most profitable NCAA football programs in the country. They are strikingly similar to McMahon, with the only real differences being the size and the enhanced high end/press areas.

I completely agree with you here. I was actually shocked at what Autzen stadium in Oregon was actually like when I went down in October. Sure you always see the redone front entrance on tv which looks unreal.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3406/3416808447_84b0953291.jpg

But once you actually get there you realize that apart from the luxury boxes and maybe a few "prime sections" the stadium isn't really anything special.

http://www2.registerguard.com/cms/images/uploads/autzenpregame_20080830.jpg

It's the same thing at Reser Stadium at Oregon State. Front entrance looks nice and the one side has been recently renovated. Other than that it's not very nice.

[valo403]

Yep, Spartan Stadium is the same. Approach it from the side with the new luxury suites and it looks like a brand new state of the art stadium.

https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSPZQiJ3eVJH6NgTqaF1hJOAuOPvhxzL bEOm8b6KuCXkh_x1Gzm

However, go around to the opposite side and you have this

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/29/40254167_1c4fd483e9_z.jpg?zz=1

Look familiar?

And look at all those padded seats

http://www.detroitbuildingtrades.org/newspapr/SpartanStadium2.jpg

Btw, MSU football turned a nearly $27mil profit in 2010-11

[Addick]

All the previous soccer entries have been in weak leagues, or owned by people with no money/equity, who had to fold before the team could establish a fan base. I suspect NASL may also be too "minor league" to be accepted by the Calgary media and sports fan.

In order to find a level where a club could do this and remain financially sustainable, you'd have to go below NASL. Also, minor league clubs don't need major league attention but rather a solid base to go forward and seek such attention when ready.


Its at the end of its lifecycle and Calgary needs a facility that recognizes that our climate is not compatible for sitting outside unprotected from March to May and October to December. (even that varies)

Meh. I don't think the benefits would justify the costs and especially if so public funds are required. In addition, shouldn't outdoor sports be played outdoors? Personally, the smell of the grass and warmth of the sun is large part of the atmosphere.


By that logic, why build a new central library? The Downtown one serves it purpose, same with Central Memorial and the dozens of other locations...

My point is, top venues attract top performers, top events and increase city/province perception. So lets say all $200 million buys is a new soccer tenant and 6 concerts a year. That's roughly 20 more events than before, and the economic spin-off therein.

While I understand what you are trying to say, I think there are two other factors: i) The penny-tax is often geared toward things, often public goods, that might not stand a chance to be privately-financed; and ii) With private ventures that have the potential to generate large private gains, the private stakeholders have to contribute a fair share of the costs and assume a fair share of the risk.

[fundmark19]

Couldn't someone just retrofit one of the new football fields at shouldice to make a suitable soccer stadium? Hellard field sits 2040 and that is just with one side of bleachers. The other 2 smaller fields I'm sure could have a nice intimate stadium feel with not to much money invested since the field portion is all ready there. It wouldn't attract MLS but could easily be suitable for another league

[Addick]

Couldn't someone just retrofit one of the new football fields at shouldice to make a suitable soccer stadium? Hellard field sits 2040 and that is just with one side of bleachers. The other 2 smaller fields I'm sure could have a nice intimate stadium feel with not to much money invested since the field portion is all ready there. It wouldn't attract MLS but could easily be suitable for another league

I'm not too sure if it would be large enough for an NASL team but I think a park comprised of a permanent grandstand and modular stands like below could work in Calgary:

http://www.eventserv.com/images/product_grandstand2.jpg

http://www.audiencesystems.com/images/pics/aslgrandstandwithcrowd.jpg

http://www.hbdesigns.co.uk/media/uploads/products/sports-spectator-stand-1.jpg

http://www.hbdesigns.co.uk/media/uploads/products/100-seater-tiered-grand-stand.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v457/LiamG/nantporth8.jpg

[fundmark19]

ralihawks and silverbacks are 7k and 5k respectively in NASL. So if they add to the main stadium they are all ready half way there and could add modular seating like your pictures around the field to do the rest

[Thunderball]

First of all, the comparison to a library is laughable. If you can't grasp the different impacts that a library and a stadium used for professional sports 15 times a year have on a city I'm not sure there's any point having a conversation with you. It's such an absurd strawman argument, and you know it.

The hi-lighted paragraph demonstrates why you think this would be a good idea, because you live in a fantasy land.

First, $200mil for a 40,000 seat domed stadium? Are you expecting to use volunteer labor in the construction or something? That figure is completely out to lunch. LiveStrong Park in KC cost $200mil and seat under 20,000 and is open air. The covered stadium proposed in Regina would cost $400mil, so unless you've got an explanation for that $200mil figure I'd say you're intentionally skewing the picture to suit your argument.

Second, you continue to base this around the addition of a fantasy MLS team when there is absolutely nothing to indicate that Calgary is a desirable market for the MLS. It seems as if you're drawing on a field of dreams style 'if you build it they will come' idea, unfortunately this isn't a movie and there aren't going to be any ghosts strolling out of corn fields. Even if the goal is to attract an MLS team, a $400mil+ 40,000 seat domed stadium is massive overkill.

Third, 6 concerts a year? Again, I'm not sure where you're coming up with these numbers but they seem to be created as a means to make your argument look stronger than it is. There have been a grand total of 6 concerts at Commonwealth since 2007. Unless U2, Bon Jovi, Kenny Chesney, and the handful of other acts that do stadium tours are all planning to tour every year, and include a city that is already off a lot of bands touring plans due to its location, that number is a complete fantasy. You would be lucky to add one additional concert to the city each year.

As for it making CFL games more marketable (I'm not even going to address the idea that this would make CIS football marketable, it's a small time sport with a fanbase consisting predominantly of friends and family) that's all well and good, but why exactly are taxpayer dollars being used to make a professional sports team more marketable? In a situation where a new building is an absolute must, such as with the Flames, I don't have an issue with some taxpayer funding, but that's not the case here.

Now let's get to the "these facilities are good for cities" argument. I don't disagree, but how exactly would this new facility make the lives of Calgarians better? McMahon already offers plenty of recreational use, does this facility somehow expand that? I suppose putting in a dome would do that, but if the payoff is recreational use you could achieve that same result at a minuscule fraction of the cost.

I honestly question whether or not you've ever been to another football stadium in North America. I've been to dozens, and the only ones that aren't pretty similar to McMahon are NFL stadiums. The CFL is not the NFL. The revenue streams aren't there, the demand isn't there, the need isn't there. Again, look at the stadiums utilized by some of the most profitable NCAA football programs in the country. They are strikingly similar to McMahon, with the only real differences being the size and the enhanced high end/press areas.

The bottom line is that McMahon can't really take on more, but it doesn't need to, not for that price tag. A single concert? A pipe dream MLS team? Padded seats for the parents of Dinos players? All for the low, low price of $500mil.

First of all the Library and Music Centre are fine comparisons because reasonable facsimilies exist in the city already that are usable and acceptable at present, and like McMahon, will become less and less useful as time goes on. They would be substantial upgrades to get to with the times. There's obviously some philosophical differences, but the reality is all three projects are non-essentials that governments have discretion over. Calgary doesn't need a new central library because it has one already that isnt in danger of collapse... and it also has 16 other modern locations. Its already one of the best systems in North America. While Libraries are essential, they don't have to be massive, landmark Downtown locations. That's a luxury. (Obviously, Calgary should have a modern destination central library for those philosophical reasons and myriad others.) The argument is the merits of anything that isnt an essential.

Second, I never said it had to be domed. It would be nice of course in a perfect world, but I'm fully aware of limitations. I said it had to protect the fans from the elements. Partial roof to provide wind, rain and snow protection. You know, just like the 33,000 seat Investors Group Stadium in Winnipeg, that happens to cost, ohh... $190 million. So, that number wasnt pulled out from outer space like you seem to think. The $400m project in Regina supposedly has hotel and conference centre attachments to it... but the precedent is Winnipeg. A university/CFL stadium with similar capacity, modern amenities and shared funding between the university, city, province and CFL club. Anything else is irrelevant and were added merely to conflate the numbers.

Third, I see where your 1 or 2 concerts are coming from, but its a guess too based on a smaller city's history with a massive stadium that is never full. Again, a tactic to make your argument stronger than it is.

And don't say, McMahon doesn't see a lot more, so don't expect more, because we both know its because of by-laws and McMahon's general antiquity. We also both know, Calgary is a larger and more attractive tour stop than Edmonton and would beat 6 over 5 years. 6 a year might be pushing, then again with the Saddledome being inadequate, and the new Flames arena likely being booked often, there could be more than you think. 6/year might be high, but 1-2/year may easily be too low. Not to mention international events and tournaments that Calgary could actually bid for instead of looking like a one horse town sitting on the sidelines when major events like the U-20 World Cup and Women's World Cup 2015 come to town.

Either way, the potential for more is only half the argument. The other half is keeping what is there. The Stampeders are already crying foul and sending the public signals they want the City and Province to talk. Lyle Bauer pretty much said that. They see McMahon is a serious long term issue, why don't you? I also don't see how you can say the 30 year old Saddledome is a must to replace, but the 50 year old McMahon is not. (I think they both need to be replaced/massively upgraded, and I do agree that the Saddledome is one of the lousiest 10 arenas in the NHL, but McMahon is far worse). Its not like the city, province and federal governments are not going to see any money over the life cycle of these buildings back in their pocket. Its a lousy investment, but it provides more return than most government funded projects.

As for MLS, again, its a non-starter when the city lacks a venue that would even be acceptable on a temporary basis. Its the only major league left that's attainable to Calgary, so it's always going to be the brass ring. Calgary showed potential to be decent NASL market in 1980 with 10-11 thousand fans on average. With half the population of today. The Boomers are the only reasonable comparable, as everything since has been mickey mouse at best. The Boomers themselves were dubious because of their owner, Skalbania. The new stadium wouldn't be exclusively to attract MLS, despite my soccer bias. The new stadium would simply make that a viable option on top of being necessary for the long term health of the Stampeders, and to have a reasonable outdoor/psuedo-outdoor venue.

To answer your question, I've been to a dozen stadiums, including the two Michigan ones you mentioned (not much to do in Windsor...). I also know MSU dumped $75 million into Spartan Stadium, and that supposedly is phase 1. Yes, its mostly benches, and benches are brutal, but the internal components are better. If you think the only difference between McMahon and Spartan is the press area and capacity, you're absolutely crazy. The concessions, the bathrooms, the hallways, the audio, the video screens, the fact that its enclosed around to keep the wind down... its night and day. Even though both the Michigan ones are barns compared to Ford Field, they are still decades ahead of McMahon.


Anyway, Fundmark, you're right. For soccer in Calgary in the next ~10 years, a twinned Hellard would be just fine for NASL, maybe with partial cover and a couple upgrades here in there, which could easily be done for less than a Peace Bridge, and since it would have primary use to minor and amateur sport, it should be an easy cheque for the city and province to sign.

Still doesn't address the fact that Calgary lacks a modern facility seating 20k+, and is about to be left behind by fellow Canadian cities half the size.

[fundmark19]

It takes what 3-4 years to build a stadium and 1-2 years to actually get the process started. If Calgary decided on NASL it would take what 3-4 months to retofit shouldice to work in the meantime until 5-6 years later we get a new football stadium/upgrade. That 5-6 years we can build a brand for the team and then make the jump to MLS once the new/upgraded large capacity stadium is ready.

Worst case scenario soccer again fails and there is not much money wasted on stadium resources. Best case it catches on and grows and we land an MLS team. If anything building NASL brand would help the Stampeders in pushing for a new stadium funding adding a realistic tenant that can help bring in income.

[Ozy_Flame]

The fact that Vancouver and Montreal now have MLS teams should be a big deal to possible franchise owners that want to invest in Calgary. TFC seemed to be a niche Canadian thing; now its expanding and I think, with the diversity we have in this city, the city size and the popularity soccer has at the community level, there is opportunity here to grow. I would venture to say that the 2014 World Cup is going to have a large impact on the Calgary soccer community as well - it seems every World Cup there is, the fans come out more in droves in Calgary.

[valo403]

First of all the Library and Music Centre are fine comparisons because reasonable facsimilies exist in the city already that are usable and acceptable at present, and like McMahon, will become less and less useful as time goes on. They would be substantial upgrades to get to with the times. There's obviously some philosophical differences, but the reality is all three projects are non-essentials that governments have discretion over. Calgary doesn't need a new central library because it has one already that isnt in danger of collapse... and it also has 16 other modern locations. Its already one of the best systems in North America. While Libraries are essential, they don't have to be massive, landmark Downtown locations. That's a luxury. (Obviously, Calgary should have a modern destination central library for those philosophical reasons and myriad others.) The argument is the merits of anything that isnt an essential.

Second, I never said it had to be domed. It would be nice of course in a perfect world, but I'm fully aware of limitations. I said it had to protect the fans from the elements. Partial roof to provide wind, rain and snow protection. You know, just like the 33,000 seat Investors Group Stadium in Winnipeg, that happens to cost, ohh... $190 million. So, that number wasnt pulled out from outer space like you seem to think. The $400m project in Regina supposedly has hotel and conference centre attachments to it... but the precedent is Winnipeg. A university/CFL stadium with similar capacity, modern amenities and shared funding between the university, city, province and CFL club. Anything else is irrelevant and were added merely to conflate the numbers.

Third, I see where your 1 or 2 concerts are coming from, but its a guess too based on a smaller city's history with a massive stadium that is never full. Again, a tactic to make your argument stronger than it is.

And don't say, McMahon doesn't see a lot more, so don't expect more, because we both know its because of by-laws and McMahon's general antiquity. We also both know, Calgary is a larger and more attractive tour stop than Edmonton and would beat 6 over 5 years. 6 a year might be pushing, then again with the Saddledome being inadequate, and the new Flames arena likely being booked often, there could be more than you think. 6/year might be high, but 1-2/year may easily be too low. Not to mention international events and tournaments that Calgary could actually bid for instead of looking like a one horse town sitting on the sidelines when major events like the U-20 World Cup and Women's World Cup 2015 come to town.

Either way, the potential for more is only half the argument. The other half is keeping what is there. The Stampeders are already crying foul and sending the public signals they want the City and Province to talk. Lyle Bauer pretty much said that. They see McMahon is a serious long term issue, why don't you? I also don't see how you can say the 30 year old Saddledome is a must to replace, but the 50 year old McMahon is not. (I think they both need to be replaced/massively upgraded, and I do agree that the Saddledome is one of the lousiest 10 arenas in the NHL, but McMahon is far worse). Its not like the city, province and federal governments are not going to see any money over the life cycle of these buildings back in their pocket. Its a lousy investment, but it provides more return than most government funded projects.

As for MLS, again, its a non-starter when the city lacks a venue that would even be acceptable on a temporary basis. Its the only major league left that's attainable to Calgary, so it's always going to be the brass ring. Calgary showed potential to be decent NASL market in 1980 with 10-11 thousand fans on average. With half the population of today. The Boomers are the only reasonable comparable, as everything since has been mickey mouse at best. The Boomers themselves were dubious because of their owner, Skalbania. The new stadium wouldn't be exclusively to attract MLS, despite my soccer bias. The new stadium would simply make that a viable option on top of being necessary for the long term health of the Stampeders, and to have a reasonable outdoor/psuedo-outdoor venue.

To answer your question, I've been to a dozen stadiums, including the two Michigan ones you mentioned (not much to do in Windsor...). I also know MSU dumped $75 million into Spartan Stadium, and that supposedly is phase 1. Yes, its mostly benches, and benches are brutal, but the internal components are better. If you think the only difference between McMahon and Spartan is the press area and capacity, you're absolutely crazy. The concessions, the bathrooms, the hallways, the audio, the video screens, the fact that its enclosed around to keep the wind down... its night and day. Even though both the Michigan ones are barns compared to Ford Field, they are still decades ahead of McMahon.


Anyway, Fundmark, you're right. For soccer in Calgary in the next ~10 years, a twinned Hellard would be just fine for NASL, maybe with partial cover and a couple upgrades here in there, which could easily be done for less than a Peace Bridge, and since it would have primary use to minor and amateur sport, it should be an easy cheque for the city and province to sign.

Still doesn't address the fact that Calgary lacks a modern facility seating 20k+, and is about to be left behind by fellow Canadian cities half the size.

I only have time to address two points.

1. Concerts: 1-2 would be low? Okay, let's take a look at venues in other cities and see how many concerts they'll be hosting this year. Mile High: Kenny Chesney and Warped Tour. MetLife Stadium: Kenny Chesney. Georgia Dome: Kenny Chesney. Bank of America Stadium: Kenny Chesney.

See a trend? There are literally a handful of artists that do stadium tours. Unless U2, Bon Jovi, Aerosmith, Coldplay and the Rolling Stones all go on tour in the same year any city will be hard pressed to host more than one or two stadium concerts in a year, particularly in a cold weather climate. Add in the fact that Calgary is not a desirable tour stop due to its location and you would be lucky to get one big show a year. This is not an argument manipulated to support my point, it's based on what is happening in the marketplace now and what has happened in the marketplace in the past.

2. I'm not sure how hammered you were at Spartan Stadium, but the fact that you think the bathrooms are better than McMahon is absolutely insane, unless of course you found yourself in the luxury box seating.

The bathrooms are ancient, there are maybe 4 sinks in each, there aren't enough of them, and best of all they are exclusively troughs. McMahon's bathrooms aren't great, but they are a hell of a lot better than that.

And yes they spent $75mil, and you see the results of it in the picture above. Guess what that new area is? The exact thing I said was the major difference, press and luxury box seating.

The concessions are virtually identical, although the turkey legs are better than the burgers they have at McMahon. Either way, food is served from holes in the concrete stadium in pretty much the exact same fashion.

The audio and video is much better, and I'd expect that to be the case for a venue that's twice the size and houses a tenant that has much larger revenue streams. I think you may be forgetting that we're talking about a CFL stadium here.

[The Big Chill]

I would love an MLS team here in Calgary. Depending on pricing I would likely go to at least a handful of games each season. I am planning a trip to go see the Whitecaps in a regular season game soon, so I am one fan who will pony up some $ for a team.

There are plenty of soccer fans in this city, but at the same time I am still not completely convinced there are enough out there who would pay to support a team. I really hope it is something that is looked at though.

Edit: After looking at the 'Caps season tickets prices I can say there is a very strong chance that I would be a STH for a Calgary MLS team.

[Muta]

The Big Chill - you can buy Whitecaps season tickets for $400. That is INSANELY good value for that product. I'm going to make it out there 2-3 times this year - such good value and such great fun.

MLS is only getting bigger and bigger, and it's gaining alot of credibility around the soccer world. Beckham, Keane, Boyd, Donovan, Henry... their presence attests to this.

As for the stadium, I'm not sure you need to spend copious amounts of money for a decent soccer facility at this time (although you would for a stadium to include a football team franchise). Here's my logic:

My firm is currently designing the new Calgary Soccer Centre, and it's value is apprx. $9M. It contains 4 indoor soccer fields, lots of room and peripheral space and is a pre-fabricated structure.

I'm not a huge fan of pre-fabs, but you could concieveably get a regular soccer pitch, surrounded with 4k -5k seats around it for, let's be on the high end for argument's sake... $30-40 M.

$30-40 M is not that much money for a sports facility (to put it into perspective, the new Rec Centres in Calgary will be apprx. $100 million each). You could plunk an NASL franchise in there, and you could rent that space out completely throughout the summer and winter when the team is not playing. Soccer demand for space - and GOOD space - is high in this city. That facility would be packed year round.

Attach a restuarant in there, and conference space to rent out, and you've got yourself a multi-purpose sports facility.

IMO, putting an NASL franchise in a roofed facility like this would give us a fairly accurate read on how viable MLS could be one day in the future.

[cheevers]

The Big Chill - you can buy Whitecaps season tickets for $400. That is INSANELY good value for that product. I'm going to make it out there 2-3 times this year - such good value and such great fun.

MLS is only getting bigger and bigger, and it's gaining alot of credibility around the soccer world. Beckham, Keane, Boyd, Donovan, Henry... their presence attests to this.

As for the stadium, I'm not sure you need to spend copious amounts of money for a decent soccer facility at this time (although you would for a stadium to include a football team franchise). Here's my logic:

My firm is currently designing the new Calgary Soccer Centre, and it's value is apprx. $9M. It contains 4 indoor soccer fields, lots of room and peripheral space and is a pre-fabricated structure.

I'm not a huge fan of pre-fabs, but you could concieveably get a regular soccer pitch, surrounded with 4k -5k seats around it for, let's be on the high end for argument's sake... $30-40 M.

$30-40 M is not that much money for a sports facility (to put it into perspective, the new Rec Centres in Calgary will be apprx. $100 million each). You could plunk an NASL franchise in there, and you could rent that space out completely throughout the summer and winter when the team is not playing. Soccer demand for space - and GOOD space - is high in this city. That facility would be packed year round.

Attach a restuarant in there, and conference space to rent out, and you've got yourself a multi-purpose sports facility.

IMO, putting an NASL franchise in a roofed facility like this would give us a fairly accurate read on how viable MLS could be one day in the future.

Somewhat off topic, but why is there not a full field that is indoors in Calgary. You have to think if they built a few of those they would be huge revenue generators as everyone would want to use them. It would be awesome to be able to play real football year round and not crappy, terrible indoor soccer.

[fundmark19]

Good question. I know the lacrosse community just got some land by Ogden that will have a full lacrosse field which is same size as soccer. I know that the nw soccer some has a field not sure of it is full size though

[Ozy_Flame]

Not to mention the South Soccer Centre is routinely booked up. If any one of our facilities can barely handle capacity (that being the two soccer centers), we need more space. I'm tired of having to get pushed down to 10:30 at night games because its adult league.

[Addick]

Not to mention the South Soccer Centre is routinely booked up. If any one of our facilities can barely handle capacity (that being the two soccer centers), we need more space. I'm tired of having to get pushed down to 10:30 at night games because its adult league.

Futsal, it's the future.

[shermanator]

Sportsnet.ca has good previews of the Whitecaps, Impact, and Toronto FC, as well as FC Edmonton on a weekly soccer podcast. It's a good listen...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/podcast/scgtas/index.php

[The Big Chill]

The 'Caps have been fantastic so far this preseason. I hope they can manage to carry some of this through to the regular season. Le Toux, as expected, is playing quite well thus far.

[mac_82]

TSN.ca is streaming the Walt Disney Soccer Classic Final between TFC and the Whitecaps. It starts at 6pm mt.

The TFC squad will be made up of academy players and trialists. Every TFC player eligible for the Champions League game this week is already back in Toronto.

4 more sleeps till Champions League!

[GirlySports]

The match tonight is sold out. 45000 at the SkyDome!

[Ozy_Flame]

That's sick. Although I think it has as much to do with Beckham as it does Champions League. I doubt the same thing would happen if they were facing . . . Santos Laguna?

[shermanator]

Rogers Centre looks weird with all of the supporters banners, but I love it

0DGDwjfE_-4& (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DGDwjfE_-4&)

[mac_82]

Cmon you REDS!

[shermanator]

Streamers FTW!

[shermanator]

Toronto FC up 2-0 after 17 minutes. Goals by Johnson and Silva.

From all accounts Silva looks like he's going to be a hell of a player. That header was perfectly placed!

[TopChed]

Rogers Centre looks weird with all of the supporters banners, but I love it

0DGDwjfE_-4& (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DGDwjfE_-4&)

It kind of ruins it for me that all those banners were there before the fans arrived. And all the streamers/fireworks are a bit ridiculous.

That said, there's been a lot of good noise from the crowd tonight.

[mac_82]

2-1 at the half. It's been a great game so far!

[mac_82]

It kind of ruins it for me that all those banners were there before the fans arrived. And all the streamers/fireworks are a bit ridiculous.

That said, there's been a lot of good noise from the crowd tonight.

How do the banners ruin it? Supporters groups spent months getting banners ready. The Red Patch Boys made multiple trips to the Sky Dome to take measurements, design, paint, set up, and will be in there taking everything down. Lots of work put in and everything looks great. If they had to set up once they were allowed in the stadium with everyone else, they would still be setting up after the final whistle.

[TopChed]

^ I was assuming they were put there by the club if they were there before the game.

[mac_82]

^ I was assuming they were put there by the club if they were there before the game.

Ah gotcha.

[seattleflamer]

Tied now. Love the chants of "FU Beckham" not so much cans falling on his head. Stay classy TO.

Keane and Buddle have been noticeable with zero finish.

[GirlySports]

That was quite an atmosphere. If Soccer Canada ever got it act together and had a decent national team the crowds in Toronto would be intense.

Now onto Game 2 on tv: Santos Laguna vs Seattle Sounders

[seattleflamer]

Go Sounders! I'm warming up to the 70's retro kit....slowly.

[GirlySports]

Why is the camera so far back! I can barely see the players!

[Thunderball]

Go Sounders! I'm warming up to the 70's retro kit....slowly.

If it wasn't so bright, it could be a funky jersey.

I can't bring myself to cheer for TFC or the Whitecaps (and definitely not the Impact), so I'm a Sounders fan until the day comes that Calgary has MLS/NASL. I bought the Shale away jersey, but the retro is just too much for me still. The actual design is nice though, just soo bright.

[The Big Chill]

Why is the camera so far back! I can barely see the players!

Ya it was kind of difficult to watch like that.

[fundmark19]

Wow watched my first mls full match and I am excited I chose to become a fan. Great atmosphere! Sucks tfc gave up goal in last min hopefully they can sneak a win in la. Excited to cheer on the caps all season even though I hate vancouver

[seattleflamer]

If Sounders play that well defensively in Santos, we're thru. Good pace and Santos never really looked comfortable.

[seattleflamer]

Wow watched my first mls full match and I am excited I chose to become a fan. Great atmosphere! Sucks tfc gave up goal in last min hopefully they can sneak a win in la. Excited to cheer on the caps all season even though I hate vancouver

I'm really rooting for TFC. Good fans that have deserved a better team. Silva looks like he'll replace Rosario nicely.

They'll need some luck to go thru.

[seattleflamer]

If it wasn't so bright, it could be a funky jersey.

I can't bring myself to cheer for TFC or the Whitecaps (and definitely not the Impact), so I'm a Sounders fan until the day comes that Calgary has MLS/NASL. I bought the Shale away jersey, but the retro is just too much for me still. The actual design is nice though, just soo bright.

Agreed. What is about the 70's/80's color schema ie Canucks 80's? Though the Timbers did a very nice job with their 70's retro kit.

Would be nice for the Boomers to come back some day. I'm old enough to have gone to Boomer games and have autographs of some of the players when they visited my elementary school.

[Thunderball]

Agreed. What is about the 70's/80's color schema ie Canucks 80's? Though the Timbers did a very nice job with their 70's retro kit.

Would be nice for the Boomers to come back some day. I'm old enough to have gone to Boomer games and have autographs of some of the players when they visited my elementary school.

I don't remember seeing old retro jerseys of Seattle's being that bright and garrish though... I remember a really nice black one with the 70s white collar though. So I wonder if its a little bit artistic license. Like that bright yellow 3rd they had.

The Boomers were a little before my time, my parents had season tickets though and enjoyed them... while I was "blessed" with the "mickey mouse club" of soccer teams that came after with no plan, no money and no hope.

[mac_82]

Well I couldn't be happier about the TFC game. I know we didn't come away with a win, but we tied the best team in the league. The fans and supporters groups really put on a show and showed Canada and the world that we are as passionate as anyone about soccer/football. The beer can was a bit of a sour spot, but there is bound to be one dbag in every crowd of 45k +. They should ship him off to Vancouver.

If anyone here watched the season opener last year between TFC and the White Caps, you can clearly see that this team has turned it around and have the proper coaching, management, and players on the field to get the job done. Plata continues to impress. Silva, our first round pick last year, looked great in his debut. Frings has solidified the back end. Koevermans is a goal scoring machine. De Guzman has really picked his game up. Frei, if healthy this year, will solidify himself as one of the best keepers in the league. And we continue to bring up youth from the academy, and it's great to see them cracking the national team roster (Morgan, Stinson, Cordon, Henry, Lindsay, Makubuya).

Now it's off to LA for the away leg. Last year LA had an amazing 12-0-5 record at home. No easy place to play. And they have some of the best players in the league with Beckham, Keane, Donovan, and Buddle. Former TFC player Chad Barrett is also a secondary scoring threat. The one bright spot is that TFC earned a tie there last year, scoring in extra time to tie it at 2-2. But Toronto has traditionally been a terrible team on the road, going 1-9-7 in league play last year. Although they did walk into Dallas for the last champions league group game and thump FC Dallas 3-0.

Next game is March 14, 8pm MT. Can't wait!

[Jimmy Stang]

I recorded the TFC match and just watched it. Good performance by Toronto and they definitely look better than years past.

The streamers are pretty annoying, and although I understand they have always done it there, I don't know if it gives them much of an advantage anyway. The beer can was just obnoxious and dangerous (if not empty when thrown).

Still, a good showing by the fans and it is great to see so many people come out for a big match in Canada. I think that this year the TFC fans may get rewarded a little more for their support over the past few years.

[shermanator]

The game next week in LA is going to be very tough to win, but I wasn't expecting TFC to even make the quarterfinals, so they can pull off the upset.

[troutman]

Don't throw beer cans at His Highness.

[troutman]

I was curious about what teams are in CCL:

http://www.concacafchampions.com/page/CL/Home

How did Toronto qualify when they were 8th in the East in 2011?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CONCACAF_Champions_League

The team qualifying from Canada is the winner of the Nutrilite Canadian Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutrilite_Canadian_Championship).

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Interesting that LA will only have 7500 spectators next week because school is in session. It's an agreement they have with the school where the stadium is located.

[fundmark19]

Wow that is a bad deal. The school should give tickets to students then who don't need parking or something or provide shuttle buses from locations outside of campus for fans.

[mac_82]

How did Toronto qualify when they were 8th in the East in 2011?

The US is given 4 spots (LA, Dallas, Colorado, and Seattle), while Canada is given 1 spot.

The US gives out the spots for MLS Supporters Shield champion (best record in regular season - LA), MLS Cup Champion (playoff winner - Colorado), MLS Cup runner up (Dallas), and the winner of the US open cup (tournament with teams from all 5 divisions of US soccer - Seattle).

Canada holds a similar tournament featuring all the pro teams (Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, Edmonton). The winner gets Canada's single spot in the Champions League. But unlike some of the US spots, who go straight to the group round, the Canadian spot has to play a 2-game preliminary round to qualify to the group stage. This has been the format since 2008.

So Toronto FC was seeded first in last years Canadian Championship. They beat FC Edmonton 3-0, 1-0, and advanced to the final. They played Vancouver in the final, and tied 1-1, and won 2-1 (Vancouver was winning 1-0, but the match had to be canceled from weather, and restarted 0-0).

They then played Nicaraguan team Real Esteli in the prelim stage, winning 2-1, 2-1.

In the group stage Toronto FC went 3-1-2, beating FC Dallas at home 3-0 in the last game to advance ahead of them as one of the top two teams of the group, along with Mexican team UNAM.

Toronto FC then drew the LA Galaxy for the quarters.


Here is a bit of history on how Canadian teams have done:

2008 - Montreal - quarter finals
2009 - Toronto - preliminary round
2010 - Toronto - group stage
2011 - Toronto -

[mac_82]

I posted this on the first page, but figured I would post it up again with all the Champions League talk.

This years Canadian Championship:

1. TFC
2. Vancouver
3. Edmonton
4. Montreal

SEMI-FINALS

2 May:
Impact Montréal v Toronto FC – in Montréal
FC Edmonton v Vancouver Whitecaps FC – in Edmonton

9 May:
Toronto FC v Impact Montréal – in Toronto
Vancouver Whitecaps FC v FC Edmonton – in Vancouver

FINAL:

16 May:
Winner of Semi-Final 1 v Winner of Semi-Final 2 – Location TBD

23 May:
Winner of Semi-Final 2 v Winner of Semi-Final 1 – Location TBD

[Addick]

I can't bring myself to cheer for TFC or the Whitecaps (and definitely not the Impact), so I'm a Sounders fan until the day comes that Calgary has MLS/NASL.

Under no circumstance could I support TFC and while I usually cannot bring myself to cheering for a neighbouring city's club, I find myself backing the Whitecaps.



The beer can was a bit of a sour spot, but there is bound to be one dbag in every crowd of 45k +.

To be honest, when you don't take action against people throwing 'innocent' stuff on the pitch, and even talk about it excitedly, it is only a matter of time before some idiot or group of idiots throw a dangerous projectile.



The US is given 4 spots (LA, Dallas, Colorado, and Seattle), while Canada is given 1 spot.

The US gives out the spots for MLS Supporters Shield champion (best record in regular season - LA), MLS Cup Champion (playoff winner - Colorado), MLS Cup runner up (Dallas), and the winner of the US open cup (tournament with teams from all 5 divisions of US soccer - Seattle).

As the playoffs can often make the leagues with them feel virtually meaningless, I like how they award a lucrative prize for winning the league.

[troutman]

This years Canadian Championship:


SEMI-FINALS

2 May:
Impact Montréal v Toronto FC – in Montréal
FC Edmonton v Vancouver Whitecaps FC – in Edmonton

9 May:
Toronto FC v Impact Montréal – in Toronto
Vancouver Whitecaps FC v FC Edmonton – in Vancouver



So, VAN has an easier path, drawing against EDM? Was this a random match-up, or based on East-West?

Is this a big deal for the Mexican teams? ie Are they playing with their A-Teams?

[GirlySports]

It's a big deal for everyone. Everyone wants that big prize at the end, a trip to Japan for the World Club Cup, millions of dollars and the possible chance of playing on of the big boys from South America or Europe.

Mexican teams have won the CONCACAF Championship (in some form) the last 6 years.

[shermanator]

So, VAN has an easier path, drawing against EDM? Was this a random match-up, or based on East-West?

Is this a big deal for the Mexican teams? ie Are they playing with their A-Teams?

The rankings for the tournament are based on league performance from the year prior. MLS is ranked above NASL. So the standings are:

1. Toronto (16th in MLS)
2. Vancouver (18th in MLS)
3. Edmonton (5th in NASL)
4. Montreal (7th in NASL)

The optics of having the 3rd worst team in MLS make the CCL quarterfinals seems bad, but Canada has to be represented in the tournament.

[mac_82]

So, VAN has an easier path, drawing against EDM? Was this a random match-up, or based on East-West?

Is this a big deal for the Mexican teams? ie Are they playing with their A-Teams?

The rankings went by where teams finished in MLS/NASL. Because TFC are defending champions, they were seeded #1. Vancouver then got the #2 seed as the only other MLS team. Edmonton finished ahead of Montreal in NASL last year, so rightly so or not (since Montreal is now fielding an MSL team) Edmonton got seeded #3.

In terms of the Mexican teams, I know that early on in the competition they don't field full 'A' squads. And I know that their season doesn't quiet line up with the MLS season (I think the Mexican Primera starts in July), they also might not be as match fit as some MLS teams.

[mac_82]

It's a big deal for everyone. Everyone wants that big prize at the end, a trip to Japan for the World Club Cup, millions of dollars and the possible chance of playing on of the big boys from South America or Europe.

Mexican teams have won the CONCACAF Championship (in some form) the last 6 years.

World Club Cup winners from the past few years include Barcelona, Internazionale, Manchester United, and Milan.

The UEFA winner has won the World Club Cup the last 5 years. The Mexican CONCACAF winner is usually battling for 3rd/4th.

Only UEFA and CONMEBOL (South America) teams have won.

[GirlySports]

World Club Cup winners from the past few years include Barcelona, Internazionale, Manchester United, and Milan.

The UEFA winner has won the World Club Cup the last 5 years. The Mexican CONCACAF winner is usually battling for 3rd/4th.

Only UEFA and CONMEBOL (South America) teams have won.

One of these years they'll beat a big guy in the semifinals. The year before last the African champions made the final.

[604flames]

Can't wait for tomorrow's Caps opener, even though I'll be on the bus come kickoff. Expecting much bigger things from Vancouver this season.

[fundmark19]

Geez I thought game was Sunday. Just told my wife I would go to movies with her. I am going to have to figure a way out of this!

[Muta]

So pumped for the opener!! I love MLS.

[fundmark19]

Well looks like I will be absent from CP and social media for the night. Convinced wife to go to early movie so I can tape the game and watch it on saturday night. Excited to cheer on the whitecaps!

[shermanator]

For those in Vancouver, how is the atmosphere for First Kick compared with last year? I remember hearing that there was a significant buzz prior to the opening game against TFC last year.

[Scrambler]

For those in Vancouver, how is the atmosphere for First Kick compared with last year? I remember hearing that there was a significant buzz prior to the opening game against TFC last year.

Similar to last year... Both had great noise and atmosphere. Maybe last years was a little better because it was a new buzz and it was out at the PNE rather than inside BC Place. That said the set up they have for soccer at BC Place is great and the crowd was really into it. There are definitely higher expectations this year. Hope they can get that first road win early in the season and move on from there.

[Montana Moe]

RSL throws down the gauntlet tonight vs. the Galaxy on the road. LA was undefeated at home last season.

I'm very excited about the Timbers match on Monday night. ESPN is broadcasting it on their international feeds, as well. They're a bit banged up coming out of preseason, but they'll be ready to rock.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

I got half season tickets this year and went to the season opener. Great atmosphere. I'm not a fan of the Southsiders, I think they sometimes act like a bunch of entitled losers, but there's no doubting they add an element to the crowd that is desparately needed. They were cheerleaders, they were easily the loudest section of the dome and they are needed.

Last year's game in terms of on field stuff was a lot to live up to, so barring something special, it was going to be a letdown, but it was still a fun match. At times. They were a few slow patches in the action, but there was still plenty to keep the casual soccer fan into it.

Hassli is a fun player to watch. Just a huge guy, with great skill. I only went to one game last season, but based on my experience today, I'm thriled I shelled out the extra cash and am glad I get to go at least 9 times this season.

[fundmark19]

Great game last night. Only 19 more wins to go this season! I'm assuming 20 wins should get best record in the league and auto birth to champions league

[shermanator]

Vancouver looks like they will be a strong club this year. They're my pick to win the Canadian Championship

[seattleflamer]

Good game by Whitecaps yesterday. Montreal's back line looked out of sorts the whole match. Probably a combination of Le Toux/Hassli/Camilo but that Montreal defense looked like division 2 quality.

Watched Galaxy up 1 nil to RSL and shocked when I woke up to see 3 straight by RSL. Mental lapses and fatigue in play there. That Galaxy offence looks scary good and should have had more than 1 goal. What a cross by Beckham!


Hopefully I can get tix to Sounders/Whitecaps in May at BC Place. There still not available though it looks like they have Sounders fans segregated already :)

Btw, I love MLS Live. Great value for $60/ year.

[Montana Moe]

That reminds me, some Sounders fans came down to Portland looking to buy tickets when they went on sale to the public at the box office. Along with the known scalpers, they were removed from the line and were refused the opportunity to purchase tickets. Some Seattle fans proceeded to write a blog complaining about how unprofessional this was by the Timbers front office, etc.

Are they not aware how visiting team tickets are allocated in soccer? It's the same all over the world. Of course, you can't control the aftermarket sales, but you buy away game tickets through your supporters group, that way all of the fans are in a designated section. These things are done for a reason, people!

Not to mention the fact that they're gaining favor by designating those tickets to home fans and not scalpers/opponents. That's just common sense.

[mac_82]

Here is a great online comic strip focused on TFC and Canada.

http://www.eastsidestandup.com/

http://www.eastsidestandup.com/toons/06/essu_s6s47.png

http://www.eastsidestandup.com/toons/06/essu_s6s44.png

http://www.eastsidestandup.com/toons/06/essu_s6s43.png

[Montana Moe]

Big win in Portland last night. It was their first come from behind win since the move to MLS. I'm certainly hoping for more nights like that (minus the hangover).

[seattleflamer]

If Boyd consistently gets that same quality service like last night, Portland will do very well! Alhassan will complement captain jack nicely in midfield.

Nice to see Adu play..horrible 2nd half tho.

[mac_82]

TFC can beat LAG with a win, a 3-3 or higher tie, or winning penalties after a 2-2 tie.

I've also heard LA is having a tough time selling out the 7500 seats available.

Here's a little photoshop I saw...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/418570_10150668934549269_1929268337_n.jpg

[vennegoor of hesselink]

What I heard was they only offered those 7500 tickets to season ticket holders and they were worried about how many of them would show up for a midweek game against TFC

[mac_82]

HUGE goal for TFC!

[fundmark19]

They are being out played but got a huge goal. Hopefully they can get 2 more to almost ensure moving on

[seattleflamer]

In a state of shock from the 6-1 drubbing by Santos Laguna. Sounders backline looked slow. Got to wonder about the preparation.

This loss really hurt the Sounders and to some extent the MLS's reputation internationally. It was such an important game and it was a fail.

Rooting for TFC tonight though.

[Matty81]

Ya fortunate to be ahead, although they don't look totally outclassed they are a bit lucky. Their offside trap just looks scary bad.

As an aside - canadian nats or mls #### do i hate landycakes

[GirlySports]

That was unfortunate... TFC need another one now.

[GirlySports]

In a state of shock from the 6-1 drubbing by Santos Laguna. Sounders backline looked slow. Got to wonder about the preparation.

This loss really hurt the Sounders and to some extent the MLS's reputation internationally. It was such an important game and it was a fail.

Rooting for TFC tonight though.

Tough for a new sea-level team to play in Mexico. After 20 minutes it looked like the Sounders players were running in sand.

[shermanator]

Soolsma! TFC up 2-1 now and 4-3 on aggregate! 12 minutes to go...

They've also matched LA's away goals (which was a potential tiebreaker)

[Slava]

Huge win for Toronto and a pretty entertaining game to watch!

[SuperMatt18]

Huge victory, will be neat to see another huge crowd in Toronto

[fundmark19]

Wow great game lots of fun to watch! I am really starting to get into this soccer stuff. I have noticed that lots of mls players have a brutal first touch on passes and causes a lot of turn overs

[shermanator]

Toronto FC is the first Canadian club to ever make the CCL semi-finals. They will play Santos Laguna in the semi-finals. First leg is in 2 weeks, and the second leg is a week later. I wonder if they play the semi finals at the Rogers Centre, or at BMO Field? Another huge crowd for TFC would be awesome

Santos Laguna is the team that knocked Montreal out of the 2008-09 CCL by scoring 2 goals in extra time to win on aggregate 5-4.

[mac_82]

Not a pretty game, but I will take the result! Chelsea and TFC come through with wins today!!!

[GirlySports]

Toronto FC is the first Canadian club to ever make the CCL semi-finals. They will play Santos Laguna in the semi-finals. First leg is in 2 weeks, and the second leg is a week later. I wonder if they play the semi finals at the Rogers Centre, or at BMO Field? Another huge crowd for TFC would be awesome

Santos Laguna is the team that knocked Montreal out of the 2008-09 CCL by scoring 2 goals in extra time to win on aggregate 5-4.

I think they have the first leg March 27th-ish. Jays home opener is on April 9. It that enough time?

[mac_82]

I wonder if they play the semi finals at the Rogers Centre, or at BMO Field? Another huge crowd for TFC would be awesome

It will be at BMO for sure. Only reason it was at Rogers Centre was because they weren't sure they could have BMO ready in time, and the weather might have been bad. With the home opener March 24, BMO will be rocking for the semi-final game.

[St. Pats]

Wow great game lots of fun to watch! I am really starting to get into this soccer stuff. I have noticed that lots of mls players have a brutal first touch on passes and causes a lot of turn overs

It certainly isn't the same as watching top class soccer but it has vastly improved. I see the standards moving up year after year in the MLS. To the point where the top MLS stars can head over and play in the Premier League and do well for example.

As for TFC they were showing signs late last year and again out of the gate this year of real improvement. Just in general they throw the ball around much quicker and with more purpose on offense. Still a little scary on the defensive side but even there it is better. They are actually becoming fun to watch.

[mac_82]

Just got the email from TFC. BMO it is!

We begin our home leg of the Semifinal on Wednesday, March 28th at BMO Field, 8:00 p.m. kickoff. Our house is going to be jumping as we go head to head with Santos Laguna.

[Ozy_Flame]

I'm hoping for the best, but . . . TFC stands a good chance of getting slaughtered. Mexican teams are absolutely dominant.

[mac_82]

I'm hoping for the best, but . . . TFC stands a good chance of getting slaughtered. Mexican teams are absolutely dominant.

Toronto has done ok in the past against Mexican teams.

2011
UNAM @ Toronto FC - Draw1-1
Toronto FC @ UNAM - Loss 1-4

2010
Cruz Azul @ TFC - Win 1-2
TFC @Cruz Azul - Draw 1-1

The home win against Cruz Azul is still one of the best games in TFC history. Hopefully they can pull off another win against Santos.

[St. Pats]

I'm hoping for the best, but . . . TFC stands a good chance of getting slaughtered. Mexican teams are absolutely dominant.

I watched that game with Santos against Seattle and yikes. Might have to beat them 10-9 on aggregate.

[seattleflamer]

Santos is the highest scoring team in the Primera league and play at a higher elevation than Calgary. I'm not sure how to prepare for high altitude with the MLS schedule the way it is.


As GirlySport insinuated, I'm not even sure elevation was the main reason for the Sounders defeat since they play Colorado/RSL at even higher elevations and aren't dominated by RSL/Rapids to the same extent the way Santos dominated.


Just a lot of soccer within a short timeframe and pretty evident Primera League is at a higher level than MLS at this point.


I wish TFC all the best and beat the crap out of Santos but hoping for a big Sounders comeback win to start MLS season tonight.

[Montana Moe]

Nice showing by Montreal today, almost 59k in attendance. First MLS goal, and first team point in the 1-1 draw with Chicago.

I would have taken away the point for the fans doing the wave...


Portland tries to improve on their poor road form last season by taking on FC Dallas in Frisco tonight. Dallas is missing a few weapons, so I'm hoping for a positive result.

[diane_phaneuf]

somethings a little off..

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/540187747.jpg?key=1302628&Expires=1332024835&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=pz7rI8Cson5ktNfpkd8F-dGgfIDIwlJLtN4Ml7FuRqZgPlNpoxCwyfQKN6C8iVE2BTk1cTS Rb5Ejc7BvIJveKgHPReHpXyCGk9muoyBke7m603RyPLf4wYHk7 NEcudZMkWbaYsYjzJimwjBWk6AJGYaf3mIcmwun5xvr6utL79c _

[GirlySports]

Nice showing by Montreal today, almost 59k in attendance. First MLS goal, and first team point in the 1-1 draw with Chicago.

I would have taken away the point for the fans doing the wave...


Portland tries to improve on their poor road form last season by taking on FC Dallas in Frisco tonight. Dallas is missing a few weapons, so I'm hoping for a positive result.


It's Montreal. You'll never see those fans again.

[Montana Moe]

Watching the Dallas match, I'm pretty sure I like the wave more than the 3 remaining vuvuzelas being used right now.

[fundmark19]

Watched whitecaps chivas game. Wasn't pretty lots of sloppy play but caps got a 0-1 result on the road. Great start to the season

[Montana Moe]

The 3 Cascadian teams have 13 points in 5 games played. The 10 Eastern Conference teams have 14 pts in 15 games played.

http://republic-of-cascadia.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/doug_flag_flat3.jpg

[St. Pats]

TFC get some bad news. Frings out for 6 to 8 weeks. http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=390876

[fundmark19]

That is not good with a high scoring mexican team coming for champions league. TFC will be lucky to keep the games close now

[shermanator]

And kiss their CCL goodbye...

[seattleflamer]

Great energy in the crowd for that Sounders/TFC game. Estrada was very good of course but other than the first goal, most of the work was done by Flaco (Fernandez).

I really wasn't sure why TFC didn't adjust that high back line. Sounders were taking advantage and it could have easily had 3 or 4 goals by half. Part of the reason for the Frings injury as well.

Uphill battle without Frings especially against Santos who destroyed Seattle's offside trap attempts.

[Jimmy Krack Korn]

Obviously, Frings being out is bad, bad news. He supports and solidifies the back 4 and keeps things under control back there. Without him, they look much less effective in defence.

Hoping for a speedy return.

[shermanator]

TFC's #1 keeper Stefan Frei broke his fibula in practice and is out 8-10 weeks. Fortunately, they have a pretty good #2 in Milos Kocic...

[fundmark19]

Tfc got smoked and whitecaps earn a draw decent weekend for cad soccer

[shermanator]

Tfc got smoked and whitecaps earn a draw decent weekend for cad soccer

Club-wise, I would argue it was pretty disappointed. Whitecaps were the only team to earn a point.

But our Olympic team (U-23) just beat the US 2-0 last night. So from that sense, it was an amazing weekend!

[mac_82]

But our Olympic team (U-23) just beat the US 2-0 last night. So from that sense, it was an amazing weekend!

Canadian Women's team beat Brazil 2-1 as well.

[fundmark19]

Canada Men play tonight need a draw or better and they will move on to the next round! Game should be televised on sports net

[seattleflamer]

Club-wise, I would argue it was pretty disappointed. Whitecaps were the only team to earn a point.

But our Olympic team (U-23) just beat the US 2-0 last night. So from that sense, it was an amazing weekend!

If you think about it, Canada has done very well this month internationally with TFC advancing to the semi's in CCL.

Now the U-23 teams! Things haven't been this good since 86.

[shermanator]

If you think about it, Canada has done very well this month internationally with TFC advancing to the semi's in CCL.

Now the U-23 teams! Things haven't been this good since 86.

I wouldn't quite say that it is as good as 86, but beating the US in U-23 is great news. The success (or lack of) of our MNT in the 2nd phase of qualification will really shed some light into where we sit on the global stage.

I think they have an outside shot at moving onto the 3rd round, but no chance of advancing to the World Cup

[seattleflamer]

I wouldn't quite say that it is as good as 86, but beating the US in U-23 is great news. The success (or lack of) of our MNT in the 2nd phase of qualification will really shed some light into where we sit on the global stage.

I think they have an outside shot at moving onto the 3rd round, but no chance of advancing to the World Cup


I'm not saying it is a good as '86 but certainly there hasn't been much to cheer about in Canadian soccer since that the win in NFLD to clinch a berth and of course playing in the WC itself.

The past few results are definite highlights which have been very few and far between.

[Jimmy Stang]

The Canada U-23 team's in over the US was encouraging. They should get at least a draw tonight and make it through. If Canada wins, The USA needs a win vs. El Salvador (a draw won't do) to make it into the semifinals along with Canada. Interesting turn of events.

Edit: Clarified my post as I accidentally implied that a semifinal berth = Olympic berth. In fact, the winner and runner-up of the tournament qualify.

[mac_82]

Terrible 90th minute goal given up against Cuba to draw 1-1.

[Jimmy Stang]

Terrible 90th minute goal given up against Cuba to draw 1-1.

I didn't catch the end of the match (had to go to the Flames game!), but drawing Cuba just made the semifinals a whole lot more difficult for Canada. They will almost certainly now play Mexico, a matchup that will make even the most optimistic Canadian cringe a little bit.

[St. Pats]

I didn't catch the end of the match (had to go to the Flames game!), but drawing Cuba just made the semifinals a whole lot more difficult for Canada. They will almost certainly now play Mexico, a matchup that will make even the most optimistic Canadian cringe a little bit.

Sorry to have to type it but a classic choke. Not really any way to sugar coat it as this was an easy win and they coasted and got burned. Realistically their chance just went adios. But hey maybe the Mexicans take them lightly and they pull off another upset.

[Jimmy Stang]

There is now a thread specifically for the U-23 Olympic qualifiers: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=116142

It doesn't bother me personally to have it in the MLS thread, but we might as well all discuss the U-23 matches together in the other thread instead of two separate places.

[Jimmy Stang]

Toronto is getting some breaks in this match vs. Santos. They are playing well and deserve to be 1-1 (with 10 to go), but Santos have had a man sent off under questionable circumstances, and earlier Toronto were very fortunate not to have conceded a penalty earlier. I have seen them given for less.

There will probably be 7 or 8 minutes added on however...

[seattleflamer]

Toronto is getting some breaks in this match vs. Santos. They are playing well and deserve to be 1-1 (with 10 to go), but Santos have had a man sent off under questionable circumstances, and earlier Toronto were very fortunate not to have conceded a penalty earlier. I have seen them given for less.

There will probably be 7 or 8 minutes added on however...

Ok result for TFC. They're in a position to have a chance at an upset at least. Go TFC...represent.

[hulkrogan]

Can anyone elaborate on the brawl at the end? My PVR recording ended right in the middle of it all. Didn't see what the initial red for or which Santos player got it at the very end.

[Jimmy Stang]

Can anyone elaborate on the brawl at the end? My PVR recording ended right in the middle of it all. Didn't see what the initial red for or which Santos player got it at the very end.

The red (there was only one red during the brouhaha, and the one earlier in the match) went to Quintero for allegedly headbutting a Toronto defender (can't remember who). The TV panned away just as Quintero was approaching the Toronto player, but the actual incident wasn't visible on the replay.

And then there was a bunch of pushing and shoving, players and coaches from the benches got involved, Santos lingered around and didn't go to the tunnel right away, etc. Nothing too crazy, in the big picture, just a bunch of people in a big gaggle.

[Stay Golden]

TFC is going to have a real challenge on their hands with Mexican fans acting insaine throwing things at them they are notorious.
TFC fans throw the paper steamers thats entirly different than what is known about the fanatical Mexican fans throw bags of urine, blood even batteries and coins at players on corner kicks and throw ins. Its absolutly nuts.

The stands are surrounded by high fences topped with razorwire.
That has to be intimidating for visiting players.

[J epworth kendal]

TFC is going to have a real challenge on their hands with Mexican fans acting insaine throwing things at them they are notorious.
TFC fans throw the paper steamers thats entirly different than what is known about the fanatical Mexican fans throw bags of urine, blood even batteries and coins at players on corner kicks and throw ins. Its absolutly nuts.

The stands are surrounded by high fences topped with razorwire.
That has to be intimidating for visiting players.

Are you sure their current stadium has the razor wire? I wanted to see some pictures of this I couldn't find any for their new stadium, it looks like a usual stadium. Their old stadium however definitely does have the razor wire.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Estadio_corona.jpg/800px-Estadio_corona.jpg

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Whitecaps earn another goaless draw, this one away to Philly.

4 GP, only 3 goals scored, but a very impressive 0 against. 2 wins, 2 draws.

Pretty good start to the season.

[fundmark19]

2 games in 2 weeks caps really needed to get some goals. Need to beat the bottom feeders if we want to make playoffs

[The Big Chill]

2 games in 2 weeks caps really needed to get some goals. Need to beat the bottom feeders if we want to make playoffs

Still have to be pretty happy with the start. Defense was the major concern of this team, and so far that has been a huge strength. I think the goals will come eventually.

[Montana Moe]

Portland wastes away a 2-1 lead in the final minute + extra time to lose 3-2 and come up with 0 points.

A few things are certain, Darlington Nagbe is going to be a star, and those kits were outstanding!: Go ahead goal (http://www.mlssoccer.com/video/2012/03/31/goal-nagbe-stuns-rsl-style).

I tried to embed, to no avail...

Edit: At the end of last season, the Timbers Army showed their appreciation to the club by way of a fine flare display in Rio Tinto vs. RSL:
DJ4Qk7IuNk0

The responsible parties took the blame and deserved punishment of a season long road match ban, as well as a 4 match home ban.

In what I can only imagine was a gesture of "thanks" to the front office for allowing them back into the stadium this upcoming weekend, the "Flare Bears" took to the sky on Saturday night:
ufp-B2mvEtg

[Ozy_Flame]

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/04/03/tfc-santos-headed-for-war

I'm going to watch this game, but frankly I don't see TFC coming out with a win. In fact, I see them getting murdered on the field at Torreon.

If they do manage a win, they'll have even more difficulty getting off the field and out of the stadium without getting murdered by the ravenous fans.

I'd try and sneak a taser past the ref if I was TFC. Or at least have them readily available on the sidelines.

[Matty81]

Ya I think they're going to lose too, although will be pulling for them and Deguz always plays better the higher the level, I think the game is resting on his shoulders from a TFC point of view.

Was interesting to see developments in Edmonton this week. Not MLS related, but they are constructing a new 3,000 seat grandstand at Clarke Stadium to bring capacity up to 5k and have their own soccer specific stadium.

Even more interesting, the grandstand can be taken appart and reassembled -which they are planning for a 10k stadium in roughly 2 years.

Nice to see some more soccer infrastructure getting built in Canada, long overdue, hope they are doing the heavy lifting up there and with some success folks with money in Calgary will follow suit.

[mac_82]

TFC keeper Stefan Frei is out 4-6 months after surgery on his ankle. His injury was worse than previously thought. Tough blow for the team. I was looking forward to his training with Liverpool over to off season to really pay off this year.

As for today, this team was able to go down to Mexico City 2 years ago and tie Cruz Azul 0-0. But not many players are still around from that team. But I still have hope...

[brocoli]

GOOOOAAALLLL!!! TFC get's the ever important 1st goal. Now road goals are taken out

[shermanator]

I still do not get how the team can be so bad in MLS play, but be so good against higher competition such as LA Galaxy, UNAM, and Santos Laguna.

A lot of game to play however.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Based in what I'm seeing I think there has been some exaggeration regarding the Mexican fans. No fences, no barbed wire, no poss bags. They don't even sound very loud or intimidating.

[shermanator]

Plata again!

TFC now leads on aggregate, and leads on away goals as well.

[seattleflamer]

I believe....

com'on TFC!!!

[Jimmy Stang]

Interesting match thus far. Although I didn't count Toronto out, and there's still plenty of match left, I wouldn't have predicted this score at halftime.

Toronto's defence does scare me a little though... And as I type this... 2-2. Sheesh.

[seattleflamer]

Gomez was offside...should not be a goal.

[mac_82]

Heart breaker just before the half. But I'll take a 2-2 scoreline with 45 mins left to play!!!

Harden and Avecal have to step it up. Solsma, Plata and Silva have been great so far.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Bl-Dhb9ZYLc/TwEnAdeepdI/AAAAAAAALJI/vqiTe7S4_t0/s1600/jim%2Bcarrey.jpg

[M*A*S*H 4077]

An entertaining game to watch! Finally a reason to cheer for TFC, represent your country well!

[mac_82]

It's also nice to see Canadian National team defender Adrian Cann back on the bench for TFC after he missed most of last year with a knee injury.

[Jimmy Stang]

I have to agree with Gerry and Forrest: the officiating hasn't been too bad. These concacaf matches have the tendency to get a little silly, especially the further south you go.

[mac_82]

I have to agree with Gerry and Forrest: the officiating hasn't been too bad. These concacaf matches have the tendency to get a little silly, especially the further south you go.

Spoke too soon

[M*A*S*H 4077]

Terrible challenge. That is a penalty

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Definite PK. Stupid challenge.

[Jimmy Stang]

Geez... I jinxed it. Although it was a penalty, albeit a very soft one.

[M*A*S*H 4077]

TFC just shooting themselves here

[mac_82]

Damn you Aceval

[Jimmy Stang]

Here we go. The wheels have fallen off.

[mac_82]

They should have left Plata in

[seattleflamer]

Questionable goal by Gomez seconds before half was deflating.

Santos is very good at home.

[seattleflamer]

yikes...same score against SounderFC.

[shermanator]

Well, I guess we can ignore my earlier comment about playing well against Santos Laguna....

Still, a good run for TFC.

[mac_82]

Well that was a tough loss. Going into Mexico with our top 3 players out it wasn't bound to be pretty. The first 45 mins was great. But I just knew in the back of my mind that Santos would have a deadly second half, just like against Seattle. I am pretty proud of TFC right now for being the first Canadian team to make the semis of the Champions League. Hopefully in the future the MLS teams will have a more even footing against Mexican teams. With the $2 million dollar salary cap it can be hard for teams to compete with the higher spending Mexican squads. Teams like the LA Galaxy have found ways around the cap, but it will be nice for the cap to go up so teams can spend more outside of DPs.

Now for TFC it's off to Montreal on Saturday, and the Canadian Championship starts May 2, so we can kick it all off again.

[shermanator]

One more thing to note, NASL competition starts on Saturday with FC Edmonton in Fort Lauderdale.

Michal Misiewicz, who started for Canada's U23 team, is most likely getting the first few starts of the season, as #1 keeper David Monsalve hurt his ankle in preseason angle.

[Jimmy Stang]

I don't suppose we can get "TVA Sports" here in Calgary on Shaw, can we? That's the French-language sports channel that shows a lot of the Impact games. They do have a fair number on TSN and Sportsnet One, but there are a lot that are only available on TVA Sports.

I don't speak French beyond the basics, but I don't mind watching sports in other languages. In fact, I subscribe to RDS because I'd rather watch the Habs in French and SD than the Leafs in English and HD.

On a semi-related note, you can subscribe to Sportsnet Pacific through Shaw for a couple of bucks a month so you can watch all of the regional Whitecaps matches. Unfortunately it is SD, obviously, but it is also cropped to 4:3. RDS on the other hand is SD but 16:9, which is much better. Aspect ratio is more important than resolution, IMO.

[shermanator]

TFC loses to Montreal 2-1. Their backline is absolutely atrocious, the defending on both goals was appalling.

I think the fans are leaving the team in droves. It's sad to see such a passionate market lose hope so quickly.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Whitecaps look strong in San Jose and are full marks for their 1-0 lead in the 2nd half. Also of note, they're 8 minutes away from setting a MLS record for most shutout minutes to start a season.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Record set!


then almost broken a minute later. Wow. Still 1-0 Caps. 65th.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Wondowlowski ties it up 1-1.

20 minutes to go.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Caps now trail for the first time this season. Quakes score 2 goals real quick.

Let's see how this Caps team can handle adversity.

[Montana Moe]

Portland is in some trouble. They can't string a 90 minute effort together. They've had a habit of allowing the first goal, then pushing to come back before running out of gas in the end. Tonight they score first, then completely fold in the second half.

Is it fitness? Substitutions? Poor defensive strategy? I believe the answer is yes...

[mac_82]

Sounds like Cann and Frings could both be back for TFC this weekend. That would go a loooong ways in solidifying the D.

[mac_82]

Also Toronto FC have signed 17 year old academy keeper Quillan Roberts. He is now the 7th player from the Academy to play for TFC and the 9th to play in MLS.

He played on the U17 Canadian team, and scored a goal against England.

[shermanator]

FYI, if anyone is going to the May 2 FC Edmonton - Whitecaps game, there is a deal online at www.teambuy.ca (http://www.teambuy.ca) with 2 for 1 tickets. Tickets are only $14 which is a killer deal.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Caps were less than stellar today, but I thought a 3-1 scoreline was unfair.

Caps haven't won since the 2nd game of the season, need to get back on track. Nothing but a W at home to Dallas on Saturday will do.

[J epworth kendal]

Caps were less than stellar today, but I thought a 3-1 scoreline was unfair.

Caps haven't won since the 2nd game of the season, need to get back on track. Nothing but a W at home to Dallas on Saturday will do.

Very light crowd too, I was switching back and forth from the Canucks game, biggest thing was you couldn't even hear the "you fat #######" chant after goal kicks, there just wasn't enough people to get any volume in that stadium. Makes sense with the Canucks game and all, but I'm sure it took some energy out of the Whitecaps, not having that crazy crowd support that they've become used to.

[Jimmy Stang]

I was at a show last night, so I recorded the Whitecaps game and avoided social media to ensure that I wouldn't see the result. Watched it this morning hoping for the best... oh well.

So my work trip to Vancouver in a few months is booked, and I have planned my flights around being able to catch the Whitecaps vs. Dynamo match on June 10th. This will be my first MLS game in person, so I am looking forward to it quite a bit. Although I'll admit to having an interest in all Canadian MLS clubs, the Whitecaps have become my primary MLS team to support simply due to the fact that they are geographically the closest and I am more likely to be able to see a match in person from time to time. Maybe it's time to get a shirt... I have enough Norwich City ones in the closet!

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Very light crowd too, I was switching back and forth from the Canucks game, biggest thing was you couldn't even hear the "you fat #######" chant after goal kicks, there just wasn't enough people to get any volume in that stadium. Makes sense with the Canucks game and all, but I'm sure it took some energy out of the Whitecaps, not having that crazy crowd support that they've become used to.

yeah, the crowd was pretty light. They announced 15000 but I have a hard time believing that number. The Southsiders did their best, but the people in the crowd were pre-occupied with checking their phones for the score of the Canuck game the whole time. It was pretty quiet in there.

Hoping for a better atmosphere on Saturday night and I think we'll get it.

[Ozy_Flame]

I was at a show last night, so I recorded the Whitecaps game and avoided social media to ensure that I wouldn't see the result. Watched it this morning hoping for the best... oh well.

So my work trip to Vancouver in a few months is booked, and I have planned my flights around being able to catch the Whitecaps vs. Dynamo match on June 10th. This will be my first MLS game in person, so I am looking forward to it quite a bit. Although I'll admit to having an interest in all Canadian MLS clubs, the Whitecaps have become my primary MLS team to support simply due to the fact that they are geographically the closest and I am more likely to be able to see a match in person from time to time. Maybe it's time to get a shirt... I have enough Norwich City ones in the closet!

Get ready for an awesome time. Last year when they were playing at Empire field, it was a hell of crowd and great entertainment. I even flew out there twice to support the Whitecaps. I plan on doing it once or twice again this year, just because MLS soccer is so awesome.

[Montana Moe]

Montreal trades striker Mike Fucito to Portland for either a 2013 2nd rounder, or 2013 international slot.
Timbers fans are apoplectic due to his time in Seattle. They now have 8 forwards under contract, so somebody is being moved. Hopefully for a defender/holding mid so they can stop blowing leads in the last 10 minutes.

Edit: Timbers Forward Eddie Johnson retires due to concussion issues. Not unexpected, and explains the trade today, though I don't believe they're done moving players.

[mac_82]

Toronto FC vs Liverpool is confirmed for July 21.

[shermanator]

Man, this TFC team is bad. Cann and Frings return from injury and they play horribly to start today's game

[vennegoor of hesselink]

Whitecaps win 1-0 over FC Dallas

[Montana Moe]

Big win for the Timbers tonight over the best team in MLS, Sporting KC.

SKC scored an absolute howler of an own goal in the first half. Portland played tough after and thankfully didn't have another final 10 minute breakdown. Huge relief.

[seattleflamer]

Montreal trades striker Mike Fucito to Portland for either a 2013 2nd rounder, or 2013 international slot.
Timbers fans are apoplectic due to his time in Seattle. They now have 8 forwards under contract, so somebody is being moved. Hopefully for a defender/holding mid so they can stop blowing leads in the last 10 minutes.

Edit: Timbers Forward Eddie Johnson retires due to concussion issues. Not unexpected, and explains the trade today, though I don't believe they're done moving players.

Well, better Fucito than Levesque for you guys ;)

[Montana Moe]

I like Fucito, always have. I was surprised that Seattle left him unprotected.

Levesque wouldn't have gone over so well.

[Montana Moe]

Wow, nice turf in Montreal... :boo:

[shermanator]

So, is anyone here going to the games in Edmonton / Montreal this Wed?

[Jimmy Stang]

So, is anyone here going to the games in Edmonton / Montreal this Wed?

I'd love to, but a mid-week jaunt to Edmonton isn't in the cards for me unfortunately. If you'll excuse my ignorance, where will the match be played in Edmonton and what is the capacity? I'm not too familiar with their club, facilities, etc.

[shermanator]

I'd love to, but a mid-week jaunt to Edmonton isn't in the cards for me unfortunately. If you'll excuse my ignorance, where will the match be played in Edmonton and what is the capacity? I'm not too familiar with their club, facilities, etc.

The ACC is played at Commonwealth. I'm not sure how the atmosphere will be with 8000 people in a 60000 seat stadium, but we'll see.

Regular season games are played at Clarke Field right next door. Currently the stands seat 1200 but they're bringing in 3000 extra seats in the next few weeks (would've been installed were it not for bad weather)

[seattleflamer]

I like Fucito, always have. I was surprised that Seattle left him unprotected.

Levesque wouldn't have gone over so well.

Fucito is tenacious and never gives up on a play. He is sometimes so frustrating to watch, though, with his lack of finish considering the quality of chances.

I hope he does well there....except against the Sounders of course.

[Montana Moe]

Fucito is tenacious and never gives up on a play. He is sometimes so frustrating to watch, though, with his lack of finish considering the quality of chances...

Sounds like my main man from Arsenal, Gervinho.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

What a finish at BC Place today. Hassli is selfish in 90+2, and shot when he should have passed on what could have been a game winning goal in a 1-1. Hassli gets another chance in 90+4 and puts it off the post and in. Whitecaps win 2-1 over top team in the West.

5-2-2 to start the season. Great stuff. TFC is 0-8-0 for worst start in MLS history, AWESOME STUFF!!

[Jimmy Krack Korn]

Good grief, is TFC even going to get a point one of these days? Nevermind a win, I'll settle for a bloody draw.

Yeesh.

[Montana Moe]

Timbers with a scoreless draw against Columbus today. It was actually a good result after the disaster that was Montreal away last weekend.

On a positive note, I won a jersey of my choice from MLS tonight. Who knew Kenny Cooper was the answer to any question?

[seattleflamer]

Sounders have won 4 in a row including 9 points in 7 days. Johnson and Montero coming into form. MVP has to be Rosales and ability to control the pace of the game.

Excited to see Sounders at Whitecaps in a couple of weeks. Should be a great match.

[mac_82]

Toronto FC is just mind bottling this year. They had a good run the last half of last season with the injection of new players (Frings, Koevermans). In March they beat the LA Galaxy in the Champions league. They even played not badly against Montreal in the first game of the Canadian Championship. But for what ever reason, they just can't get it together in the MLS.

Here is an interesting read from a TFC supporter who wrote this article for Sportsnet.

Too many Canadians on Toronto FC?
http://www.sportsnet.ca/fanfuel/2012/04/30/toronto_fc_tfc_mls_soccer_csa/

The problem with Toronto FC may be that they have too many Canadians on it. For a guy who has stood and chanted for our country against the likes of Ecuador and St. Kitts, this reeks of blasphemy, but it may be one of the main reasons behind our pathetic record since 2007.

The Montreal Impact are doing the bare minimum to help the CSA as they employ just three Canadians on their roster. Of those three, only Patrice Bernier has played, logging 315 minutes of action in Montreal's 810 minutes played thus far this season. The third Canadian roster spot is taken with backup keeper Greg Sutton.



Vancouver Whitecaps FC only employs four Canadians. In their most recent game, a 1-0 victory against the Columbus Crew, not one of those Canadians made it off the bench. Alain Rochat has logged 237 minutes of a total of 720 minutes thus far this season, making him the only Canadian to see action.



Toronto FC currently have nine Canadians on their active roster. And unlike their fellow Canadian teams they tend to use them. In their seventh loss of the season delivered this week, four of those Canadians were in the starting 11.


Further, these Canadian roster players on Toronto become highly untradeable assets. Recall that the MLS Roster rules allow US born players to be counted as Domestic but the return favour is not granted. A Canadian-born player does not count as a US Domestic player. That means that for a Canadian to be traded to the US, a precious "International Roster Spot" would need to be used in order to fit them within the team.

[seattleflamer]

^^^

TFC has been very unlucky with those injuries but the bottom line is that defence is porous and now they are mentally fragile as a group.

Also that 5 man back line just reeked of desperation on Saturday.

[shermanator]

San Jose striker Chris Wondolowski has 11 goals in 10 games so far this year. He's on pace to break the single season goals mark of 27. Interestingly enough, he has outscored the following TEAMS this season:

Chicago (9), New England (8), Houston (7), Philadelphia (5), Toronto (6), Vancouver (9), Dallas (10), Chivas USA (5), Portland (9)

The guy just seems to find the right areas...